Re: The fight is being lost...
From: art fougner, md (evsono@pipeline.com)
Tue Sep 28 07:05:46 2004
Entertainment pays ... good medicine barely copays ... and so it goes
...
art
At Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Philippe Jeanty, MD, PhD wrote:
>
>He he well done :)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of TY
>Chang
>Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:55 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>
>************************************************************************
>************************************************************************
>
>--
>************************************************************************
>*****************
>Imagine this, one day in the future in the ultrasound unit,
>
>"Madam, Good morning! Welcome to Double-U, your ultrasound service of
>choice. How can I help you?"
>
>"Well, I would like to have bonding. Do you have any special offer
>today?"
>
>"Yes, we do. In addition to our regular scans, you can add $80 for a
>DVD. That's 20% off our regular price. And, best of all, you can add $20
>more to make it readable for all areas, so that your family and friends
>world wide can share with you.
>
>"Wow, this sounds good! Double-U is always the best. You guys care so
>much."
>
>"You are one hundred percent correct. Your baby is our top priority.
>Which scan do you want?"
>
>"I would like to see the face. People say the baby does smile in the
>uterus, and the baby also yawns. Is that true?"
>
>"Yes, but that takes much more time to capture the movement. A regular
>scan time is usually too short to do this. Do you want to make it combo
>by adding $50 for 10 more minutes. I can guarantee to record yawning for
>you or your money back."
>
>"You sure? How wonderful! I can't wait too see the baby."
>************************************************************************
>************************************************************************
>************************************************************************
>*****************
>This is not medical whatsoever. Medicine is not a profession to offer
>what people want, but to offer what is good for people. This is the core
>value of medicine. We are the gate keepers to make sure the resources
>are spent in the effective way. People may act against advice, but it is
>their choice. We are care givers, not entertainers. We must be loyal to
>our oath when we entered this profession. Value may change by time, but
>entertainment ultrasound simply has not proved itself, or it does not
>bother to do so because it is not medical.
>
>The position of medical profession should be loud and clear. If
>entertainment ultrasound is OK to doctors/sonographers, so is fast food
>to dieticians.
>
>Tung-yao Chang, MD, MMedSci
>Pregnancy Assessment Center,
>Mackay Memorial Hospital,
>Taipei, Taiwan
>
>************************************************************************
>************************************************************************
>************************************************************************
>*****************
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
>DuBose, Terry
>Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 21:35
>To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>
>I am not sure how many ARDMS certified sonographers are working with
>Fetal Fotos, if any. I do know that a banker bought a Fetal Foto
>franchise in Dallas, thinking it would be a good investment. The
>banker then called Jan Bryant, the DMS Program Director at El Centro
>Community College and asked if she would send students to do the
>scanning. Bryant informed them that it was illegal and she would not
>provide students.
>
>Most registered sonographers realize that they have no need to have a
>franchise, they can do this on their own, if they choose, and as long as
>the FDA does not enforce the rules prohibiting it.
>
>Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>
>Associate Professor & Director
>Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP
>4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
>Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
>501-686-6510
>DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
>http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
>http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>art fougner, md
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 7:12 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>
>How many of these FotoMats either employ or are operated by Registered
>Sonographers? Any idea?
>
>art
>
>At Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Terry J DuBose wrote:
>>
>>I also suspect that the Insurance Corps actually welcome anyone doing
>>nonmedical sonography, it reduces the pressure from their customers to
>>have exams that are covered. It is just increasing their bottom line
>by
>>reducing the expenses... they really aren't about good health care.
>>
>>--
>>Terry J DuBose
>>
>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:35:29 -0500 Dave Berck <djberck@yahoo.com>
>writes:
>>> That may be true, but I don't think that too many
>>> insurance companies take this seriously, certainly a
>>> small minority. And ACOG has kept the bar pretty low
>>> in terms of what they consider acceptible ultrasound credentials,
>>> e.g. and ob/gyn residency.
>>>
>>> --- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Some insurance companies are taking care of the
>>> > office ultrasound
>>> > situation by only paying for services offered by accredited
>>> > practices.
>>> >
>>> > art
>>> >
>>> > At Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Dave Berck wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >I totally agree!
>>> > >
>>> > >--- "DuBose, Terry" <DuboseTerryJ@uams.edu> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> " This just doesn't seem like such a big deal
>>> > when
>>> > >> most ultrasound in
>>> > >> the US is being done by jokers who wouldn't know
>>> > a
>>> > >> nuchal fold from a
>>> > >> fig newton."
>>> > >>
>>> > >> This is the best argument for mandatory licensure
>>> > >> and ARDMS
>>> > >> certification for all using sonography... even
>>> > the
>>> > >> RNs and MDs.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Associate Professor & Director
>>> > >> Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>>> > >> University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP
>>> > >> 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
>>> > >> Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
>>> > >> 501-686-6510
>>> > >> DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
>>> > >> http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>>> > >> http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
>>> > >> http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
>>> > >>
>>> >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >--
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> Behalf Of Dave Berck
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:48 AM
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I'm not a big fan of fetal foto, but the only
>>> > strong
>>> > >> argument against them is that
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 1) it's bad for the baby.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> But
>>> > >> Does anyone really think that this is true? Is
>>> > >> there any ultrasound professional who uses any
>>> > >> genuine
>>> > >> restraint in indications for ultrasound in order
>>> > to
>>> > >> abide by ALARA principles? If not, it's time to
>>> > get
>>> > >> off the high horse. I don't think the prohibition analogy holds
>>> > >> here -- diagnostic u/s isn't bad
>>> > for
>>> > >> babies.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 2) the techs won't know what to do with an
>>> > anomaly
>>> > >> (e.g. cleft lip or anencephaly).
>>> > >>
>>> > >> But
>>> > >> Does anyone familiar with the quality of
>>> > >> ultrasound
>>> > >> in the US (i.e. low) think that the overall
>>> > quality
>>> > >> of
>>> > >> fetal fotos could possible be worse than what
>>> > >> general
>>> > >> ob/gyns generate in their offices? Who's done a
>>> > >> worse
>>> > >> job -- the radiologist who misses anencephaly at
>>> > 20
>>> > >> weeks, or the fetal foto tech who misses it at 30 weeks?
>>> > >>
>>> > >> This just doesn't seem like such a big deal
>>> > when
>>> > >> most ultrasound in the US is being done by jokers
>>> > >> who
>>> > >> wouldn't know a nuchal fold from a fig newton.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> -- Dave Berck, MD, MPH, RDMS
>>> > >>
>>> > >> --- Allen Worrall <jworrall@alaska.net> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> > I am afraid it is going to be like Prohibition:
>>> > >> > there are some things that the people want and
>>> > you
>>> > >> > can pass all the laws you want, but it will not
>>> > >> stop
>>> > >> > even law-abiding folks from doing whatever it
>>> > is
>>> > >> > (drinking alcohol or having prenatal sonos.).
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Of course it could be greatly reduced, by
>>> > >> > considering it something as bad as dealing
>>> > drugs,
>>> > >> or
>>> > >> > a similar really bad thing. Then you would have underground
>>> > >> > ultrasound "speakeasies". Probably
>>> > no
>>> > >> > one on this forum is old enough to know what I
>>> > am
>>> > >> > talking about.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Allen
>>> > >
>>
>>>>>> > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > >> > From: Dr. Wolfgang Moroder
>>> > >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:21 AM
>>> > >> > Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Thanks Terry, well the war ... drags on!
>>> > >> > Wolfgang
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Am 23/set/04 um 21:05 schrieb DuBose, Terry:
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > > Wolfgang... no, but it helps. Basically,
>>> > in
>>> > >> > the USA there are folks,
>>> > >> > > some untrained in medicine, who are opening "Fetal
>>> > >> > Studios" and
>>> > >> > > charging
>>> > >> > > large fees to provide the parents with
>>> > >> pictures
>>> > >> > and videos. This is
>>> > >> > > without any medical indication or
>>> > diagnosis.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > There are at least two sides, probably many
>>> > >> > more, and a lot of
>>> > >> > > disagreement in what should be done.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Hope this helps.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Associate Professor & Director
>>> > >> > > Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>>> > >> > > University of Arkansas for Medical
>>> > Sciences,
>>> > >> > CHRP
>>> > >> > > 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
>>> > >> > > Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
>>> > >> > > 501-686-6510
>>> > >> > > DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
>>> > >> > > http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>>> > >> > > http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
>>> > >> > > http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >>
>>> >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> > >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> > >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> > > From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net]
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> > On Behalf Of
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> > > Dr. Wolfgang Moroder
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:00 PM
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>>> > >> > > Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Do I have to be a registered user of NYT to understand
>>> > >> > what this is all
>>> > >> > > about?
>>> > >> > > Best regards
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Wolfgang
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Am 23/set/04 um 16:20 schrieb Philippe
>>> > Jeanty,
>>> > >> > MD, PhD:
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >>
>>> > >> >
>>> > >>
>>> >
>>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/technology/circuits/23ultr.html?th
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >>
>>> > >> =====
>>> > >> David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>>> > >>
>>> > >=====
>>> > >David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > art fougner, md
>>> > ich bin ein New Yorker
>>> >
>>>
>>> =====
>>> David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>>>
>>________________________________________________________________
>>Get your name as your email address.
>>________________________________________________________________
>>________________________________________________________________
>>________________________________________________________________
>>Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more
>>Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today!
>>
>--
>art fougner, md
>ich bin ein New Yorker
>
>------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------------
>Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments,
>------------------------------------
>------------------------------------
>is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
>------------------------------------
>------------------------------------
>confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
>disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
>recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
>copies of the original message.
>
--
art fougner, md
ich bin ein New Yorker
