Re: The fight is being lost...
From: TY Chang (tychang@ms1.hinet.net)
Mon Sep 27 11:53:30 2004
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--
Imagine this, one day in the future in the ultrasound unit,
"Madam, Good morning! Welcome to Double-U, your ultrasound service of
choice. How can I help you?"
"Well, I would like to have bonding. Do you have any special offer
today?"
"Yes, we do. In addition to our regular scans, you can add $80 for a
DVD. That's 20% off our regular price. And, best of all, you can add $20
more to make it readable for all areas, so that your family and friends
world wide can share with you.
"Wow, this sounds good! Double-U is always the best. You guys care so
much."
"You are one hundred percent correct. Your baby is our top priority.
Which scan do you want?"
"I would like to see the face. People say the baby does smile in the
uterus, and the baby also yawns. Is that true?"
"Yes, but that takes much more time to capture the movement. A regular
scan time is usually too short to do this. Do you want to make it combo
by adding $50 for 10 more minutes. I can guarantee to record yawning for
you or your money back."
"You sure? How wonderful! I can't wait too see the baby."
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This is not medical whatsoever. Medicine is not a profession to offer
what people want, but to offer what is good for people. This is the core
value of medicine. We are the gate keepers to make sure the resources
are spent in the effective way. People may act against advice, but it is
their choice. We are care givers, not entertainers. We must be loyal to
our oath when we entered this profession. Value may change by time, but
entertainment ultrasound simply has not proved itself, or it does not
bother to do so because it is not medical.
The position of medical profession should be loud and clear. If
entertainment ultrasound is OK to doctors/sonographers, so is fast food
to dieticians.
Tung-yao Chang, MD, MMedSci
Pregnancy Assessment Center,
Mackay Memorial Hospital,
Taipei, Taiwan
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-----Original Message-----
From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
DuBose, Terry
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 21:35
To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
I am not sure how many ARDMS certified sonographers are working with
Fetal Fotos, if any. I do know that a banker bought a Fetal Foto
franchise in Dallas, thinking it would be a good investment. The
banker then called Jan Bryant, the DMS Program Director at El Centro
Community College and asked if she would send students to do the
scanning. Bryant informed them that it was illegal and she would not
provide students.
Most registered sonographers realize that they have no need to have a
franchise, they can do this on their own, if they choose, and as long as
the FDA does not enforce the rules prohibiting it.
Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
Associate Professor & Director
Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP
4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
501-686-6510
DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
http://www.io.com/~dubose/
http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
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-----Original Message-----
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From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
art fougner, md
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 7:12 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
How many of these FotoMats either employ or are operated by Registered
Sonographers? Any idea?
art
At Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Terry J DuBose wrote:
>
>I also suspect that the Insurance Corps actually welcome anyone doing
>nonmedical sonography, it reduces the pressure from their customers to
>have exams that are covered. It is just increasing their bottom line
by
>reducing the expenses... they really aren't about good health care.
>
>--
>Terry J DuBose
>
>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:35:29 -0500 Dave Berck <djberck@yahoo.com>
writes:
>> That may be true, but I don't think that too many
>> insurance companies take this seriously, certainly a
>> small minority. And ACOG has kept the bar pretty low
>> in terms of what they consider acceptible ultrasound credentials,
>> e.g. and ob/gyn residency.
>>
>> --- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Some insurance companies are taking care of the
>> > office ultrasound
>> > situation by only paying for services offered by accredited
>> > practices.
>> >
>> > art
>> >
>> > At Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Dave Berck wrote:
>> > >
>> > >I totally agree!
>> > >
>> > >--- "DuBose, Terry" <DuboseTerryJ@uams.edu> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> " This just doesn't seem like such a big deal
>> > when
>> > >> most ultrasound in
>> > >> the US is being done by jokers who wouldn't know
>> > a
>> > >> nuchal fold from a
>> > >> fig newton."
>> > >>
>> > >> This is the best argument for mandatory licensure
>> > >> and ARDMS
>> > >> certification for all using sonography... even
>> > the
>> > >> RNs and MDs.
>> > >>
>> > >> Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>> > >>
>> > >> Associate Professor & Director
>> > >> Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>> > >> University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP
>> > >> 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
>> > >> Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
>> > >> 501-686-6510
>> > >> DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
>> > >> http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>> > >> http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
>> > >> http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
>> > >>
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>
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>> > >>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >--
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> Behalf Of Dave Berck
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:48 AM
>> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>> > >> Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>> > >>
>> > >> I'm not a big fan of fetal foto, but the only
>> > strong
>> > >> argument against them is that
>> > >>
>> > >> 1) it's bad for the baby.
>> > >>
>> > >> But
>> > >> Does anyone really think that this is true? Is
>> > >> there any ultrasound professional who uses any
>> > >> genuine
>> > >> restraint in indications for ultrasound in order
>> > to
>> > >> abide by ALARA principles? If not, it's time to
>> > get
>> > >> off the high horse. I don't think the prohibition analogy holds
>> > >> here -- diagnostic u/s isn't bad
>> > for
>> > >> babies.
>> > >>
>> > >> 2) the techs won't know what to do with an
>> > anomaly
>> > >> (e.g. cleft lip or anencephaly).
>> > >>
>> > >> But
>> > >> Does anyone familiar with the quality of
>> > >> ultrasound
>> > >> in the US (i.e. low) think that the overall
>> > quality
>> > >> of
>> > >> fetal fotos could possible be worse than what
>> > >> general
>> > >> ob/gyns generate in their offices? Who's done a
>> > >> worse
>> > >> job -- the radiologist who misses anencephaly at
>> > 20
>> > >> weeks, or the fetal foto tech who misses it at 30 weeks?
>> > >>
>> > >> This just doesn't seem like such a big deal
>> > when
>> > >> most ultrasound in the US is being done by jokers
>> > >> who
>> > >> wouldn't know a nuchal fold from a fig newton.
>> > >>
>> > >> -- Dave Berck, MD, MPH, RDMS
>> > >>
>> > >> --- Allen Worrall <jworrall@alaska.net> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > I am afraid it is going to be like Prohibition:
>> > >> > there are some things that the people want and
>> > you
>> > >> > can pass all the laws you want, but it will not
>> > >> stop
>> > >> > even law-abiding folks from doing whatever it
>> > is
>> > >> > (drinking alcohol or having prenatal sonos.).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Of course it could be greatly reduced, by
>> > >> > considering it something as bad as dealing
>> > drugs,
>> > >> or
>> > >> > a similar really bad thing. Then you would have underground
>> > >> > ultrasound "speakeasies". Probably
>> > no
>> > >> > one on this forum is old enough to know what I
>> > am
>> > >> > talking about.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Allen
>> > >
>
>>>> > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > >> > From: Dr. Wolfgang Moroder
>> > >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:21 AM
>> > >> > Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Thanks Terry, well the war ... drags on!
>> > >> > Wolfgang
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Am 23/set/04 um 21:05 schrieb DuBose, Terry:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > Wolfgang... no, but it helps. Basically,
>> > in
>> > >> > the USA there are folks,
>> > >> > > some untrained in medicine, who are opening "Fetal
>> > >> > Studios" and
>> > >> > > charging
>> > >> > > large fees to provide the parents with
>> > >> pictures
>> > >> > and videos. This is
>> > >> > > without any medical indication or
>> > diagnosis.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > There are at least two sides, probably many
>> > >> > more, and a lot of
>> > >> > > disagreement in what should be done.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Hope this helps.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Associate Professor & Director
>> > >> > > Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>> > >> > > University of Arkansas for Medical
>> > Sciences,
>> > >> > CHRP
>> > >> > > 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
>> > >> > > Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
>> > >> > > 501-686-6510
>> > >> > > DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
>> > >> > > http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>> > >> > > http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
>> > >> > > http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
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>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > > -----Original Message-----
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > > From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net]
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > On Behalf Of
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > > Dr. Wolfgang Moroder
>> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:00 PM
>> > >> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>> > >> > > Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Do I have to be a registered user of NYT to understand
>> > >> > what this is all
>> > >> > > about?
>> > >> > > Best regards
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Wolfgang
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Am 23/set/04 um 16:20 schrieb Philippe
>> > Jeanty,
>> > >> > MD, PhD:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/technology/circuits/23ultr.html?th
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >> =====
>> > >> David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>> > >>
>> > >=====
>> > >David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > art fougner, md
>> > ich bin ein New Yorker
>> >
>>
>> =====
>> David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>>
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--
art fougner, md
ich bin ein New Yorker
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