ULTRASOUND Messages for September, 2004: The fight is being lost...

-- Marveen Craig

========================

Dave Berck wrote:

>The sonographer in the manhattan fetal foto is RDMS >registered. > >--- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com> wrote: > >>How many of these FotoMats either employ or are >>operated by Registered >>Sonographers? Any idea? >> >>art >> >>At Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Terry J DuBose wrote: >> >>>I also suspect that the Insurance Corps actually >>> >>welcome anyone doing >> >>>nonmedical sonography, it reduces the pressure from >>> >>their customers to >> >>>have exams that are covered. It is just increasing >>> >>their bottom line by >> >>>reducing the expenses... they really aren't about >>> >>good health care. >> >>>-- >>>Terry J DuBose >>> >>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:35:29 -0500 Dave Berck >>> >><djberck@yahoo.com> writes: >> >>>>That may be true, but I don't think that too many >>>>insurance companies take this seriously, >>>> >>certainly a >> >>>>small minority. And ACOG has kept the bar pretty >>>> >>low >> >>>>in terms of what they consider acceptible >>>> >>ultrasound >> >>>>credentials, e.g. and ob/gyn residency. >>>> >>>>--- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com> >>>> >>wrote: >> >>>>>Some insurance companies are taking care of the >>>>>office ultrasound >>>>>situation by only paying for services offered >>>>> >>by >> >>>>>accredited practices. >>>>> >>>>>art >>>>> >>>>>At Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Dave Berck wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I totally agree! >>>>>> >>>>>>--- "DuBose, Terry" <DuboseTerryJ@uams.edu> >>>>>> >>wrote: >> >>>>>>>" This just doesn't seem like such a big >>>>>>> >>deal >> >>>>>when >>>>> >>>>>>>most ultrasound in >>>>>>>the US is being done by jokers who wouldn't >>>>>>> >>know >> >>>>>a >>>>> >>>>>>>nuchal fold from a >>>>>>>fig newton." >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This is the best argument for mandatory >>>>>>> >>licensure >> >>>>>>>and ARDMS >>>>>>>certification for all using sonography... >>>>>>> >>even >> >>>>>the >>>>> >>>>>>>RNs and MDs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Associate Professor & Director >>>>>>>Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program >>>>>>>University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, >>>>>>> >>CHRP >> >>>>>>>4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563 >>>>>>>Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA >>>>>>>501-686-6510 >>>>>>>DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu >>>>>>>http://www.io.com/~dubose/ >>>>>>>http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp >>>>>>>http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm >>>>>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>>-- >>>>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>From: ultrasound@obgyn.net >>>>>>>[mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>Dave Berck >>>>>>>Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:48 AM >>>>>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND >>>>>>>Subject: Re: The fight is being lost... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I'm not a big fan of fetal foto, but the >>>>>>> >>only >> >>>>>strong >>>>> >>>>>>>argument against them is that >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1) it's bad for the baby. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But >>>>>>> Does anyone really think that this is >>>>>>> >>true? Is >> >>>>>>>there any ultrasound professional who uses >>>>>>> >>any >> >>>>>>>genuine >>>>>>>restraint in indications for ultrasound in >>>>>>> >>order >> >>>>>to >>>>> >>>>>>>abide by ALARA principles? If not, it's time >>>>>>> >>to >> >>>>>get >>>>> >>>>>>>off the high horse. I don't think the >>>>>>> >>prohibition >> >>>>>>>analogy holds here -- diagnostic u/s isn't >>>>>>> >>bad >> >>>>>for >>>>> >>>>>>>babies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>2) the techs won't know what to do with an >>>>>>> >>>>>anomaly >>>>> >>>>>>>(e.g. cleft lip or anencephaly). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But >>>>>>> Does anyone familiar with the quality of >>>>>>>ultrasound >>>>>>>in the US (i.e. low) think that the overall >>>>>>> >>>>>quality >>>>> >>>>>>>of >>>>>>>fetal fotos could possible be worse than >>>>>>> >>what >> >>>>>>>general >>>>>>>ob/gyns generate in their offices? Who's >>>>>>> >>done a >> >>>>>>>worse >>>>>>>job -- the radiologist who misses >>>>>>> >>anencephaly at >> >>>>>20 >>>>> >>>>>>>weeks, or the fetal foto tech who misses it >>>>>>> >>at 30 >> >>>>>>>weeks? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This just doesn't seem like such a big >>>>>>> >>deal >> >>>>>when >>>>> >>>>>>>most ultrasound in the US is being done by >>>>>>> >>jokers >> >>>>>>>who >>>>>>>wouldn't know a nuchal fold from a fig >>>>>>> >>newton. >> >>>>>>> -- Dave Berck, MD, MPH, RDMS >>>>>>> >>>>>>>--- Allen Worrall <jworrall@alaska.net> >>>>>>> >>wrote: >> >>>>>>>>I am afraid it is going to be like >>>>>>>> >>Prohibition: >> >>>>>>>>there are some things that the people want >>>>>>>> >>and >> >>>>>you >>>>> >>>>>>>>can pass all the laws you want, but it >>>>>>>> >>will not >> >>>>>>>stop >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>even law-abiding folks from doing whatever >>>>>>>> >>it >> >>>>>is >>>>> >>>>>>>>(drinking alcohol or having prenatal >>>>>>>> >>sonos.). >> >>>>>>>>Of course it could be greatly reduced, by >>>>>>>>considering it something as bad as dealing >>>>>>>> >>>>>drugs, >>>>> >>>>>>>or >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>a similar really bad thing. Then you would >>>>>>>> >>have >> >>>>>>>>underground ultrasound "speakeasies". >>>>>>>> >>Probably >> >>>>>no >>>>> >>>>>>>>one on this forum is old enough to know >>>>>>>> >>what I >> >>>>>am >>>>> >>>>>>>>talking about. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Allen >>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Dr. Wolfgang Moroder >>>>>>>> To: Multiple recipients of list >>>>>>>> >>ULTRASOUND >> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:21 >>>>>>>> >>AM >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: The fight is being lost... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Terry, well the war ... drags on! >>>>>>>> Wolfgang >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am 23/set/04 um 21:05 schrieb DuBose, >>>>>>>> >>Terry: >> >>>>>>>> > Wolfgang... no, but it helps. >>>>>>>> >>Basically, >> >>>>>in >>>>> >>>>>>>>the USA there are folks, >>>>>>>> > some untrained in medicine, who are >>>>>>>> >>opening >> >>>>>>>>"Fetal Studios" and >>>>>>>> > charging >>>>>>>> > large fees to provide the parents with >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>pictures >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>and videos. This is >>>>>>>> > without any medical indication or >>>>>>>> >>>>>diagnosis. >>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > There are at least two sides, probably >>>>>>>> >>many >> >>>>>>>>more, and a lot of >>>>>>>> > disagreement in what should be done. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Hope this helps. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, >>>>>>>> >>FAIUM >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Associate Professor & Director >>>>>>>> > Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program >>>>>>>> > University of Arkansas for Medical >>>>>>>> >>>>>Sciences, >>>>> >>>>>>>>CHRP >>>>>>>> > 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563 >>>>>>>> > Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA >>>>>>>> > 501-686-6510 >>>>>>>> > DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu >>>>>>>> > http://www.io.com/~dubose/ >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> > From: ultrasound@obgyn.net >>>>>>>>[mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> > Dr. Wolfgang Moroder >>>>>>>> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 >>>>>>>> >>2:00 PM >> >>>>>>>> > To: Multiple recipients of list >>>>>>>> >>ULTRASOUND >> >>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: The fight is being >>>>>>>> >>lost... >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Do I have to be a registered user of >>>>>>>> >>NYT to >> >>>>>>>>understand what this is all >>>>>>>> > about? >>>>>>>> > Best regards >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Wolfgang >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Am 23/set/04 um 16:20 schrieb Philippe >>>>>>>> >>>>>Jeanty, >>>>> >>>>>>>>MD, PhD: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/technology/circuits/23ultr.html?th >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>===== >>>>>>>David J. Berck, MD, MPH >>>>>>> >>>>>>===== >>>>>>David J. Berck, MD, MPH >>>>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>art fougner, md >>>>>ich bin ein New Yorker >>>>> >>>>===== >>>>David J. Berck, MD, MPH >>>> >>________________________________________________________________ >> >>________________________________________________________________ >> >>>Get your name as your email address. >>> >>________________________________________________________________ >> >>________________________________________________________________ >> >>>Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and >>> >>more >> >>>Only $1.99/ month - visit >>> >>http://www.mysite.com/name today! >> >>-- >>art fougner, md >>ich bin ein New Yorker >> > >===== >David J. Berck, MD, MPH >

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