Re: The fight is being lost...
From: Dave Berck (djberck@yahoo.com)
Mon Sep 27 09:05:08 2004
The sonographer in the manhattan fetal foto is RDMS
registered.
--- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com> wrote:
> How many of these FotoMats either employ or are
> operated by Registered
> Sonographers? Any idea?
>
> art
>
> At Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Terry J DuBose wrote:
> >
> >I also suspect that the Insurance Corps actually
> welcome anyone doing
> >nonmedical sonography, it reduces the pressure from
> their customers to
> >have exams that are covered. It is just increasing
> their bottom line by
> >reducing the expenses... they really aren't about
> good health care.
> >
> >--
> >Terry J DuBose
> >
> >On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:35:29 -0500 Dave Berck
> <djberck@yahoo.com> writes:
> >> That may be true, but I don't think that too many
> >> insurance companies take this seriously,
> certainly a
> >> small minority. And ACOG has kept the bar pretty
> low
> >> in terms of what they consider acceptible
> ultrasound
> >> credentials, e.g. and ob/gyn residency.
> >>
> >> --- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Some insurance companies are taking care of the
> >> > office ultrasound
> >> > situation by only paying for services offered
> by
> >> > accredited practices.
> >> >
> >> > art
> >> >
> >> > At Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Dave Berck wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >I totally agree!
> >> > >
> >> > >--- "DuBose, Terry" <DuboseTerryJ@uams.edu>
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> " This just doesn't seem like such a big
> deal
> >> > when
> >> > >> most ultrasound in
> >> > >> the US is being done by jokers who wouldn't
> know
> >> > a
> >> > >> nuchal fold from a
> >> > >> fig newton."
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This is the best argument for mandatory
> licensure
> >> > >> and ARDMS
> >> > >> certification for all using sonography...
> even
> >> > the
> >> > >> RNs and MDs.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Associate Professor & Director
> >> > >> Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
> >> > >> University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences,
> CHRP
> >> > >> 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
> >> > >> Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
> >> > >> 501-686-6510
> >> > >> DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
> >> > >> http://www.io.com/~dubose/
> >> > >> http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
> >> > >> http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
>
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> >> > >--
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> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
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> >> > >> From: ultrasound@obgyn.net
>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> Dave Berck
> >> > >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:48 AM
> >> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
> >> > >> Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I'm not a big fan of fetal foto, but the
> only
> >> > strong
> >> > >> argument against them is that
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 1) it's bad for the baby.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> But
> >> > >> Does anyone really think that this is
> true? Is
> >> > >> there any ultrasound professional who uses
> any
> >> > >> genuine
> >> > >> restraint in indications for ultrasound in
> order
> >> > to
> >> > >> abide by ALARA principles? If not, it's time
> to
> >> > get
> >> > >> off the high horse. I don't think the
> prohibition
> >> > >> analogy holds here -- diagnostic u/s isn't
> bad
> >> > for
> >> > >> babies.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 2) the techs won't know what to do with an
> >> > anomaly
> >> > >> (e.g. cleft lip or anencephaly).
> >> > >>
> >> > >> But
> >> > >> Does anyone familiar with the quality of
> >> > >> ultrasound
> >> > >> in the US (i.e. low) think that the overall
> >> > quality
> >> > >> of
> >> > >> fetal fotos could possible be worse than
> what
> >> > >> general
> >> > >> ob/gyns generate in their offices? Who's
> done a
> >> > >> worse
> >> > >> job -- the radiologist who misses
> anencephaly at
> >> > 20
> >> > >> weeks, or the fetal foto tech who misses it
> at 30
> >> > >> weeks?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This just doesn't seem like such a big
> deal
> >> > when
> >> > >> most ultrasound in the US is being done by
> jokers
> >> > >> who
> >> > >> wouldn't know a nuchal fold from a fig
> newton.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> -- Dave Berck, MD, MPH, RDMS
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --- Allen Worrall <jworrall@alaska.net>
> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > I am afraid it is going to be like
> Prohibition:
> >> > >> > there are some things that the people want
> and
> >> > you
> >> > >> > can pass all the laws you want, but it
> will not
> >> > >> stop
> >> > >> > even law-abiding folks from doing whatever
> it
> >> > is
> >> > >> > (drinking alcohol or having prenatal
> sonos.).
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Of course it could be greatly reduced, by
> >> > >> > considering it something as bad as dealing
> >> > drugs,
> >> > >> or
> >> > >> > a similar really bad thing. Then you would
> have
> >> > >> > underground ultrasound "speakeasies".
> Probably
> >> > no
> >> > >> > one on this forum is old enough to know
> what I
> >> > am
> >> > >> > talking about.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Allen
> >> > >
> >
>> >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > >> > From: Dr. Wolfgang Moroder
> >> > >> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> ULTRASOUND
> >> > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:21
> AM
> >> > >> > Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Thanks Terry, well the war ... drags on!
> >> > >> > Wolfgang
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Am 23/set/04 um 21:05 schrieb DuBose,
> Terry:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > > Wolfgang... no, but it helps.
> Basically,
> >> > in
> >> > >> > the USA there are folks,
> >> > >> > > some untrained in medicine, who are
> opening
> >> > >> > "Fetal Studios" and
> >> > >> > > charging
> >> > >> > > large fees to provide the parents with
> >> > >> pictures
> >> > >> > and videos. This is
> >> > >> > > without any medical indication or
> >> > diagnosis.
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> > > There are at least two sides, probably
> many
> >> > >> > more, and a lot of
> >> > >> > > disagreement in what should be done.
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> > > Hope this helps.
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> > > Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS,
> FAIUM
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> > > Associate Professor & Director
> >> > >> > > Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
> >> > >> > > University of Arkansas for Medical
> >> > Sciences,
> >> > >> > CHRP
> >> > >> > > 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
> >> > >> > > Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
> >> > >> > > 501-686-6510
> >> > >> > > DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
> >> > >> > > http://www.io.com/~dubose/
> >> > >> > >
> http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
> >> > >> > >
> http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
>
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> >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----
>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> > > From: ultrasound@obgyn.net
>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> > [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> > > Dr. Wolfgang Moroder
> >> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004
> 2:00 PM
> >> > >> > > To: Multiple recipients of list
> ULTRASOUND
> >> > >> > > Subject: Re: The fight is being
> lost...
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> > > Do I have to be a registered user of
> NYT to
> >> > >> > understand what this is all
> >> > >> > > about?
> >> > >> > > Best regards
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> > > Wolfgang
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> > > Am 23/set/04 um 16:20 schrieb Philippe
> >> > Jeanty,
> >> > >> > MD, PhD:
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> > >>
> >> > >> >
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/technology/circuits/23ultr.html?th
> >> > >> > >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >>
> >> > >> =====
> >> > >> David J. Berck, MD, MPH
> >> > >>
> >> > >=====
> >> > >David J. Berck, MD, MPH
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > art fougner, md
> >> > ich bin ein New Yorker
> >> >
> >>
> >> =====
> >> David J. Berck, MD, MPH
> >>
>
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>
> --
> art fougner, md
> ich bin ein New Yorker
>
=====
David J. Berck, MD, MPH
