Re: The fight is being lost...
From: art fougner, md (evsono@pipeline.com)
Mon Sep 27 07:10:39 2004
How many of these FotoMats either employ or are operated by Registered
Sonographers? Any idea?
art
At Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Terry J DuBose wrote:
>
>I also suspect that the Insurance Corps actually welcome anyone doing
>nonmedical sonography, it reduces the pressure from their customers to
>have exams that are covered. It is just increasing their bottom line by
>reducing the expenses... they really aren't about good health care.
>
>--
>Terry J DuBose
>
>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:35:29 -0500 Dave Berck <djberck@yahoo.com> writes:
>> That may be true, but I don't think that too many
>> insurance companies take this seriously, certainly a
>> small minority. And ACOG has kept the bar pretty low
>> in terms of what they consider acceptible ultrasound
>> credentials, e.g. and ob/gyn residency.
>>
>> --- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Some insurance companies are taking care of the
>> > office ultrasound
>> > situation by only paying for services offered by
>> > accredited practices.
>> >
>> > art
>> >
>> > At Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Dave Berck wrote:
>> > >
>> > >I totally agree!
>> > >
>> > >--- "DuBose, Terry" <DuboseTerryJ@uams.edu> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> " This just doesn't seem like such a big deal
>> > when
>> > >> most ultrasound in
>> > >> the US is being done by jokers who wouldn't know
>> > a
>> > >> nuchal fold from a
>> > >> fig newton."
>> > >>
>> > >> This is the best argument for mandatory licensure
>> > >> and ARDMS
>> > >> certification for all using sonography... even
>> > the
>> > >> RNs and MDs.
>> > >>
>> > >> Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>> > >>
>> > >> Associate Professor & Director
>> > >> Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>> > >> University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP
>> > >> 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
>> > >> Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
>> > >> 501-686-6510
>> > >> DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
>> > >> http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>> > >> http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
>> > >> http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
>> > >>
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >--
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> From: ultrasound@obgyn.net
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> Dave Berck
>> > >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:48 AM
>> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>> > >> Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>> > >>
>> > >> I'm not a big fan of fetal foto, but the only
>> > strong
>> > >> argument against them is that
>> > >>
>> > >> 1) it's bad for the baby.
>> > >>
>> > >> But
>> > >> Does anyone really think that this is true? Is
>> > >> there any ultrasound professional who uses any
>> > >> genuine
>> > >> restraint in indications for ultrasound in order
>> > to
>> > >> abide by ALARA principles? If not, it's time to
>> > get
>> > >> off the high horse. I don't think the prohibition
>> > >> analogy holds here -- diagnostic u/s isn't bad
>> > for
>> > >> babies.
>> > >>
>> > >> 2) the techs won't know what to do with an
>> > anomaly
>> > >> (e.g. cleft lip or anencephaly).
>> > >>
>> > >> But
>> > >> Does anyone familiar with the quality of
>> > >> ultrasound
>> > >> in the US (i.e. low) think that the overall
>> > quality
>> > >> of
>> > >> fetal fotos could possible be worse than what
>> > >> general
>> > >> ob/gyns generate in their offices? Who's done a
>> > >> worse
>> > >> job -- the radiologist who misses anencephaly at
>> > 20
>> > >> weeks, or the fetal foto tech who misses it at 30
>> > >> weeks?
>> > >>
>> > >> This just doesn't seem like such a big deal
>> > when
>> > >> most ultrasound in the US is being done by jokers
>> > >> who
>> > >> wouldn't know a nuchal fold from a fig newton.
>> > >>
>> > >> -- Dave Berck, MD, MPH, RDMS
>> > >>
>> > >> --- Allen Worrall <jworrall@alaska.net> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > I am afraid it is going to be like Prohibition:
>> > >> > there are some things that the people want and
>> > you
>> > >> > can pass all the laws you want, but it will not
>> > >> stop
>> > >> > even law-abiding folks from doing whatever it
>> > is
>> > >> > (drinking alcohol or having prenatal sonos.).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Of course it could be greatly reduced, by
>> > >> > considering it something as bad as dealing
>> > drugs,
>> > >> or
>> > >> > a similar really bad thing. Then you would have
>> > >> > underground ultrasound "speakeasies". Probably
>> > no
>> > >> > one on this forum is old enough to know what I
>> > am
>> > >> > talking about.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Allen
>> > >
>
>>>> > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > >> > From: Dr. Wolfgang Moroder
>> > >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:21 AM
>> > >> > Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Thanks Terry, well the war ... drags on!
>> > >> > Wolfgang
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Am 23/set/04 um 21:05 schrieb DuBose, Terry:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > Wolfgang... no, but it helps. Basically,
>> > in
>> > >> > the USA there are folks,
>> > >> > > some untrained in medicine, who are opening
>> > >> > "Fetal Studios" and
>> > >> > > charging
>> > >> > > large fees to provide the parents with
>> > >> pictures
>> > >> > and videos. This is
>> > >> > > without any medical indication or
>> > diagnosis.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > There are at least two sides, probably many
>> > >> > more, and a lot of
>> > >> > > disagreement in what should be done.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Hope this helps.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Associate Professor & Director
>> > >> > > Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>> > >> > > University of Arkansas for Medical
>> > Sciences,
>> > >> > CHRP
>> > >> > > 4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
>> > >> > > Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
>> > >> > > 501-686-6510
>> > >> > > DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
>> > >> > > http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>> > >> > > http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
>> > >> > > http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > > -----Original Message-----
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > > From: ultrasound@obgyn.net
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> > > Dr. Wolfgang Moroder
>> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:00 PM
>> > >> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
>> > >> > > Subject: Re: The fight is being lost...
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Do I have to be a registered user of NYT to
>> > >> > understand what this is all
>> > >> > > about?
>> > >> > > Best regards
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Wolfgang
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Am 23/set/04 um 16:20 schrieb Philippe
>> > Jeanty,
>> > >> > MD, PhD:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/technology/circuits/23ultr.html?th
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >> =====
>> > >> David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>> > >>
>> > >=====
>> > >David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > art fougner, md
>> > ich bin ein New Yorker
>> >
>>
>> =====
>> David J. Berck, MD, MPH
>>
>________________________________________________________________
>Get your name as your email address.
>________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________
>Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more
>Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today!
>
--
art fougner, md
ich bin ein New Yorker
