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Re: fetal echogenic bowel From: Anatoly (sono_anatoli@mail.ru) Thu Aug 5 14:30:35 2004 Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ] Next message: Allen Worrall: "Re: fetal echogenic bowel" Previous message: Marveen Craig: "Re: fetal echogenic bowel" Maybe in reply to: Marveen Craig: "fetal echogenic bowel" Next in thread: Allen Worrall: "Re: fetal echogenic bowel" Hi. You won't dispute, colleagues, that when we call some object ECHOGENIC (echoic) we mean it produces echos, in difference to water substances and some tissue with the same, as water, black,unechoic, appearence. The term echogenic is too obscure. It implies that normally we believe the bowel to be unechoic, whereas it is not so. Practically normal fetus bowel is echogenic i.e.more, than water, echoic. If it is very echogenic, then why not call it hyperechogenic or hyperechoic bowel. Since the bowel hyperechoicy is a very operator-dependent feature, false diagnosing is a problem. Thus seems natural 1/to call abnormally bright bowel heperechoic, rather than echoic; 2/to call it hyperechoic if it shows the same ultrasound density as the bone in the same fetus. -- Anatoly Garkusha, MD. Kiev, Ukraine >----- Original Message ----- From: Marveen Craig To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:41 PM Subject: Re: fetal echogenic bowel Thanks for the clarification, Allen. >From a physics perspective, I found it hard to understand. I didn't know clinically, that it is an accepted fact. Marveen ======================== Allen Worrall wrote: Abnormally echogenic bowel should be as echogenic as nearby bone before you call it echogenic. Allen > ----- Original Message ----- From: Marveen Craig To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: fetal echogenic bowel I've always used variable gain studies to distinguish soft tissue from bone or similar densities. However, the last line of your statement (if I'm interpreting it correctly) implies that fetal bowel is as echogenic (dense and reflective) as bone. Was that your intent? Marveen Craig Tucson, Arizona, USA ========================== =========== Dave Berck wrote: I agree. I also think that echogenic bowel is often diagnosed when it is really not there. I have found the best way is to use a 5MHz transducer and turn down the gain. If the bowel disappears before the bone does, it's not echogenic bowel. --- Allen Worrall <jworrall@alaska.net> wrote: Was the echogenic bowel found on a transvaginal scan using a high frequency transducer? High frequency transducers will make bowel look echogenic. If the fetus swallowed blood, I think that can cause echogenic bowel. The SCREENING tests for Down have indicated low RISK. No DIAGNOSTIC tests have been done, so you do not know for certain that the fetus does not have Down. I think many of the experts (some I hope will respond your message) would agree with the patient's decision not to have an invasive test: I think many would feel that isolated echogenic bowel is not an indication for amniocentesis. Allen Joseph A Worrall MD RDMS OB/GYN Ultrasound at the Fairbanks Clinic Fairbanks, AK 99701 http://www.obgynsono.com >----- Original Message ----- From: "Yiannis Nickolidakis"<nickolidakis@geneticsunit.gr> To: "Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND" <ultrasound@dns.obgyn.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: fetal echogenic bowel An ultrasound scan during 18th week of a 29 years old healthy primigravida revealed certain fetal echogenic bowel. No other abnormalities were seen. She had no vaginal bleeding since now. Nuchal translucency on 12th week was <2mm. Triplo test shows 1:10.000 risk for Down syndrome. Serologic tests for congenital infections are negative. The pregnant is not carrier of a known mutation of cystic fibrosis gene. She is not positive to do an amniocentesis for fetal karyotyping. If this embryo has no Down syndrome, not cystic fibrosis, not congenital infection, what else could it has? Dr. Yiannis Nickolidakis Greece http://www.medpages.obgyn.net/geneticsunit.gr ===== David J. Berck, MD, MPH Next message: Allen Worrall: "Re: fetal echogenic bowel" Previous message: Marveen Craig: "Re: fetal echogenic bowel" Maybe in reply to: Marveen Craig: "fetal echogenic bowel" Next in thread: Allen Worrall: "Re: fetal echogenic bowel"

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