Re: Keepsake 3D
From: Dave Berck (djberck@yahoo.com)
Mon May 24 14:54:08 2004
If such a scan makes the parents subjectively happier
about the pregnancy, more bonded etc., isn't that a
sufficiently good reason? Isn't that a better reason
than a lot of nonsense reasons we use every day for
doing ultrasound like, "doptone not in the room but
scanner is", "it's easier to find the FH this way"
etc.? And remember, the average german woman gets like
8 or 9 scans per pregnancy. They don't seem worse off,
and their medical system isn't so market driven. . .
--
Dave Berck, MD, RDMS
Ich Bin Ein Barbeque-er
--- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com> wrote:
> A nice souvenir for the folks often can rule out
> facial clefts so, in
> that regard, it IS a diagnostic image.
>
> art
>
> At Mon, 24 May 2004, David Nyberg wrote:
> >
> >I think these are excellent guidelines Allen.
> >What is clear is that keepsake imaging has hit a
> chord with a segment of our patient population and
> these commerical sites have filled a void. It is
> unlikely they are going away and we should help them
> fit into established practices and procedures.
> >I also completely agree that we all do some form of
> patient-directed imaging. The only difference is
> that the primary intent of our exams is for
> diagnostic purposes. Keepsake imaging could also
> provide some diagnostic information.
> >
> >David
> >
> >On Mon, 24 May 2004, Allen Worrall wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, we all do that I am sure. Maybe the answer
> to this problem is something
> >> like the following:
> >>
> >> 1- All Keepsake fetal imaging centers must be
> licensed by the appropriate
> >> State agency. The State agency might require that
> the keepsake imaging
> >> center have a medical director, a radiologist or
> ob/gyn physician
> >> 2- The imaging must be done by sonographers
> registered in ob/gyn by ARDMS or
> >> the appropriate Radiological organization , or by
> Board Certified ob/gyn
> >> physicians or radiologists.
> >> 3- The ultrasound examination must meet the
> requirements of the AIUM or
> >> radiological organization for obstetrical exams.
> >> 4- The patient must be given a written formal
> report of the examination.
> >> This report must be of the same quality as would
> be expected from an
> >> ultrasound lab at a medical facility, although it
> may be written by the
> >> sonographer.
> >>
> >> Thus the main issue becomes that the patient
> referred herself, she was not
> >> referred by an obstetrical provider. Since she is
> paying for the exam
> >> herself, that should not be a big hurdle. The
> imaging center would be
> >> assuming more responsibility for what they are
> doing. Indeed, they probably
> >> would find it prudent to obtain medical liability
> insurance. The main thrust
> >> would be to provide the patient with the CD, DVD,
> music, photos, etc, but
> >> there would be more emphasis on examining the
> fetus. The cost of operating
> >> such a center probably would go up, and thus the
> fee would go up.
> >>
> >> Allen
> >>
> >> Joseph A Worrall MD RDMS
> >> OB/GYN Ultrasound at the Fairbanks Clinic
> >> Fairbanks, AK 99701
> >> http://www.obgynsono.com
> >
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Dave Berck" <djberck@yahoo.com>
> >> To: "Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND"
> <ultrasound@dns.obgyn.net>
> >> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:06 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Keepsake 3D
> >>
> >> > As an aside, I happen to know the sonographer
> who
> >> > works at Peek in the Pod. She happens to be
> RDMS
> >> > certified, and a lovely, conscientious person.
> >> >
> >> > PS: does anyone ever take ANY extra time at an
> exam to
> >> > get a nice picture for the parents? If so,
> welcome to
> >> > fetal foto because you are doing the same
> thing.
> >> >
> >> > Dave Berck, MD, MPH, RDMS
> >> > Mt. Kisco, NY.
> >> >
> >> > --- "art fougner, md" <evsono@pipeline.com>
> wrote:
> >> > > As a follow-up, Robert Modugno,MD posted this
> on
> >> > > OB-Gyn-L
> >> > >
> >> > > May 17, 2004 By MARC SANTORA
> >> > >
> >> > > "I'm going to cry."
> >> > >
> >> > > Limor Fronimos, 25 weeks pregnant, was taking
> part
> >> > > in one of the
> >> > > stranger and more controversial outgrowths of
> the
> >> > > ultrasound industry -
> >> > > the high-resolution, artistic photography of
> fetuses
> >> > > - and was
> >> > > overwhelmed by what she was seeing on the
> video
> >> > > monitor.
> >> > >
> >> > > For a few hundred dollars, expectant mothers
> can get
> >> > > sepia-toned prints
> >> > > to give to their families and friends, a
> CD-ROM with
> >> > > the pictures so
> >> > > they can be e-mailed around the world and a
> DVD with
> >> > > a 20-minute video
> >> > > of the fetus squirming in the amniotic sac.
> >> > >
> >> > > In an age of medical marvels, nothing would
> seem out
> >> > > of the ordinary
> >> > > about this experience, except that these
> ultrasounds
> >> > > are not being
> >> > > performed in doctors' offices or medical
> clinics,
> >> > > but at fetal photo
> >> > > studios that have been opening across the
> country in
> >> > > recent years and
> >> > > arrived in Manhattan in March.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mrs. Fronimos, 29, was a client at A Peek in
> the
> >> > > Pod, just off Madison
> >> > > Avenue on the Upper East Side, in a
> neighborhood of
> >> > > trendy maternity and
> >> > > children's stores. The top-of-the-line
> ultrasound
> >> > > package at the
> >> > > studio, including prints, CD-ROM and DVD,
> costs
> >> > > $295.
> >> > >
> >> > > But along with keepsake pictures, the new
> studios
> >> > > have generated a good
> >> > > deal of concern. They are not subject to
> >> > > regulation, and anyone with an
> >> > > ultrasound machine - the best cost upwards of
> >> > > $150,000 - can open up
> >> > > shop.
> >> > >
> >> > > The Food and Drug Administration in
> Washington has
> >> > > issued a blanket
> >> > > warning against what it calls "entertainment"
> >> > > ultrasound photos, and
> >> > > there is a move in Albany, led by the deputy
> >> > > majority leader of the
> >> > > State Senate, Dean G. Skelos, a Republican
> from
> >> > > Long Island, to try to
> >> > > ban the practice.
> >> > >
> >> > > "This is high-powered equipment, and every
> step must
> >> > > be taken to ensure
> >> > > that mothers and their unborn children are
> protected
> >> > > from unforeseen
> >> > > harm," Mr. Skelos said about his legislation
> to ban
> >> > > stores like A Peek
> >> > > in the Pod. "This legislation will guarantee
> that
> >> > > ultrasounds are
> >> > > limited to medically necessary treatments."
> >> > >
> >> > > Prenatal ultrasound works by sending energy
> into the
> >> > > mother's womb in
> >> > > the form of sound waves, which bounce off the
> fetus
> >> > > and are converted
> >> > > into images. When the practice first began
> more
> >> > > than two decades ago,
> >> > > the images were so cloudy and blurred that to
> all
> >> > > but the most expert
> >> > > eye they seemed more like Rorschach blots
> than
> >> > > portraits.
> >> > >
> >> > > However, in the past few years, there have
> been
> >> > > tremendous strides in
> >> > > the technology, which has moved from
> two-dimensional
> >> > > black-and-white
> >> > > images to three-dimensional color stills to
> videos.
> >> > > About a year ago,
> >> > > General Electric ran a series of national
> >> > > advertisements about the
> >> > > technology and its results. Industry
> officials said
> >> > > the response from
> >> > > mothers was overwhelming. They wanted to see
> the
> >> > > kinds of pictures
> >> > > featured in the ads.
> >> > >
> >> > > "The advances in technology that we have seen
> have
> >> > > created pictures that
> >> > > are much more lifelike," said Dr. Daniel
> Schultz,
> >> > > the acting director
> >> > > for the Food and Drug Administration's Center
> for
> >> > > Devices and
> >> > > Radiological Health.
> >> > >
> >> > > Dr. Schultz said that over the years
> ultrasound
> >> > > technology has proved
> >> > > safe, but that when the agency first learned
> of the
> >> > > artistic ultrasound
> >> > > photos in 1994 in Texas, it recommended
> against the
> >> > > technology's use for
> >> > > any purpose other than medical. The fear was
> that
> >> > > an irresponsible
> >> > > practitioner could subject a woman to a
> dangerously
> >> > > long exposure to
> >> > > ultrasound. As more shops have opened in the
> past
> >> > > year, Dr. Schultz
> >> > > said, the food and drug agency thought it
> should
> >> > > issue the warning
> >> > > again. "From the sense we are getting, we
> are
> >> > > dealing with a growing
> >> > > issue," he said.
> >> > >
> >> > > The F.D.A. governs only the advertising and
> selling
> >> > > of the equipment
> >> > > and does not police how it is used. Still,
> Dr.
> >> > > Schultz said: "It makes
> >> > > us nervous. The message that we would like
> to get
> >> > > out is that women
> >> > > should not engage in this activity or any
> other
> >> > > activity that could
> >> > > possibly have a harmful effect on their
> child."
> >> > >
> >> > > Rocky McClintock, the owner of A Peek in the
> Pod,
> >> > > agrees that it would
> >> > > be wise to establish a set of guidelines. In
> the
> >> > > absence of a standard,
> >> > > she has set her own rules.
> >> > >
> >> > > She has hired a sonographer, Narda L.
> Johnson, to
> >> > > perform the
> >> > > ultrasounds. She also requires that clients
> have
> >> > > prenatal care and
> >> > > consult with their doctors before coming in
> for
> >> > > sessions. The studio
> >> > > recommends that women who have the keepsake
> >> > > sonograms be from 22 to 32
> >> > > weeks pregnant, that the length of one
> ultrasound
> >> > > session be no more
> >> > > than 20 minutes, and that no client undergo
> more
> >> > > than three sessions,
> >> > > each on different days. Ms. McClintock said
> that
> >> > > of about 60 clients
> >> > > who have come to her seeking ultrasounds
> since the
> >> > > store opened in
> >> > > March, only 2 had doctors who opposed the
> idea, and
> >> > > those women did not
> >> > > proceed with the sessions.
> >> > >
> >> > > The room where the ultrasound is performed
> looks
> >> > > more like a New Age spa
> >> > > than a sterile hospital room. The bed is
> soft, the
> >> > > lights are chilled,
> >> > > and in the corner, for children, there is a
> >> > > PlayStation.
> >> > >
> >> > > The music playing gently in the background
> also
> >> > > serves as the soundtrack
> >> > > for the DVD the clients receive. It was
> composed by
> >> > > a client's husband,
> >> > > Marc Bazermat, who was so taken by the
> experience he
> >> > > had with his wife
> >> > > that he created what they call in the office
> "The
> >> > > Ultrasound Song."
> >> > >
> >> > > "Clients can also bring in their own music,"
> Ms.
> >> > > McClintock said. So
> >> > > an unborn baby can groove to the Beatles or
> Busta
> >> > > Rhymes, depending on
> >> > > what the parents think their offspring's
> tastes may
> >> > > be.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mrs. Fronimos's tiny daughter seemed to favor
> >> > > chocolate.
> >> > >
> >> > > When the baby would not cooperate, choosing
> instead
> >> > > to shield herself
> >> > > with tiny hands from the prenatal equivalent
> of
> >> > > paparazzi, Ms. Johnson
> >> > > turned to a trick she picked up during the 20
> years
> >> > > she has performed
> >> > > ultrasounds in doctors' offices.
> >> > >
> >> > > She gave the mother chocolate.
> >> > >
> >> > > "It goes straight to the baby," Ms. Johnson
> said.
> >> > > "It's a sugar rush."
> >> > >
> >> > > Sure enough, the image on the screen soon
> became
> >> > > clearer, and a big
> >> > > smile could be discerned.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/17/nyregion/17fetus.html?ex=1085802642&ei=1&en=bdc3f0f54184cbb6
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > > art
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > > At Sun, 16 May 2004, art fougner, md wrote:
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > > >
> >> > > >SKELOS INTRODUCES LEGISLATION BANNING
> "KEEPSAKE"
> >> > > ULTRASOUNDS
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Bill Follows Opening of First Prenatal
> Photography
> >> > > Studio in New York
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Thursday, May 6, 2004
> >> > > >
> >> > > >New York State Senate Deputy Majority Leader
> Dean
> >> > > G. Skelos (R-C,
> >> > > >Rockville Centre) today announced the
> introduction
> >> > > of legislation
> >> > > >prohibiting non-medical ultrasounds used
> solely for
> >> > > entertainment
> >> > > >purposes. Although private prenatal
> "photography"
> >> > > shops have appeared
> >> > > >in shopping malls around the country, New
> York's
> >> > > first private
> >> > > >ultrasound studio recently appeared in
> Manhattan.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >"The FDA has concluded that these
> unregulated
> >> > > ultrasounds 'put a mother
> >> > > >and her unborn baby at risk,'" said Senator
> Skelos.
> >> > > "This is
> >> > > >high-powered, equipment and every step must
> be
> >> > > taken to ensure that
> >> > > >mothers and their unborn children are
> protected
> >> > > from unforeseen harm.
> >> > > >This legislation will guarantee that
> ultrasounds
> >> > > are limited to
> >> > > >medically-necessary treatments and
> administered by
> >> > > trained
> >> > > >professionals."
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Generally, ultrasound equipment produces a
> >> > > high-frequency sound wave to
> >> > > >generate diagnostic images of developing
> babies.
> >> > > Since the 1960s,
> >> > > >ultrasounds have offered an invaluable tool
> for
> >> > > diagnosing pregnancy and
> >> > > >any potential abnormalities and determining
> the
> >> > > proper course of medical
> >> > > >care. When correctly administered by
> trained
> >> > > professionals, such as
> >> > > >sonographers, radiologists and
> obstetricians,
> >> > > low-power ultrasounds are
> >> > > >generally considered a safe means of gaining
> >> > > information about a
> >> > > >pregnancy.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Utilizing state-of-the-art 4D technology,
> the most
> >> > > advanced ultrasound
> >> > > >machines can provide much clearer pictures
> than
> >> > > older
> >> > > >equipment-including facial contours, muscle
> >> > > definition and hair-and
> >> > > >combine these images into short videos.
> However,
> >> > > this modern ultrasound
> >> > > >equipment is capable of producing
> intensities eight
> >> > > times higher than
> >> > > >the machines commonly used by medical
> >> > > professionals.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >As introduced by Senator Skelos, S.6776-A
> would
> >> > > restrict the
> >> > > >administration of any ultrasound on a
> pregnant
> >> > > woman to those performed
> >> > > >pursuant to an order or referral by a
> licensed
> >> > > physician, nurse
> >> > > >practitioner or licensed midwife. In
> addition, the
> >> > > legislation
> >> > > >prohibits the dispensation of ultrasounds
> for
> >> > > entertainment purposes or
> >> > > >those not warranted by the condition of the
> >> > > patient. If enacted, a
> >> > > >violation of this new law would be a Class A
> >> > > misdemeanor, with a maximum
> >> > > >prison sentence of one year.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >"Ultrasounds on pregnant women are used for
> medical
> >> > > purposes, to obtain
> >> > > >information about the pregnancy," said
> William B.
> >> > > Rosenblatt, M.D.,
> >> > > >President Medical Society of the State of
> New York.
> >> > > "The practice of
> >> > > >performing ultrasounds on pregnant women
> without a
> >> > > medical reason and an
> >> > > >order from a physician, nurse practitioner
> or nurse
> >> > > midwife should not
> >> > > >be done. The Medical Society of the State
> of New
> >> > > York supports this
> >> > > >bill as an effort to end this unnecessary
> and
> >> > > extremely costly
> >> > > >practice."
> >> > > >
> >> > > >A U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
> >> > > investigation concluded that
> >> > > >non-medical, entertainment ultrasounds are
> often
> >> > > performed without a
> >> > > >doctor's supervision. Moreover, the FDA
> warned
> >> > > that "[u]ltrasound is a
> >> > > >form of energy, and even at low levels,
> laboratory
> >> > > studies have shown it
> >> > > >can produce physical effects in tissue, such
> as
> >> > > jarring vibrations and a
> >> > > >rise in temperature." As such, the FDA
> concluded
> >> > > that "prenatal
> >> > > >ultrasounds can't be considered completely
> >> > > innocuous." Further, the FDA
> >> > > >noted that many of these companies use the
> >> > > ultrasound machines at higher
> >> > > >energy levels and for as long as one hour to
> secure
> >> > > clear pictures
> >> > > >and/or videos for their customers.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >The FDA first became aware of the "keepsake"
> >> > > ultrasound industry in 1994
> >> > > >(Texas) and informed these providers that
> anyone
> >> > > promoting, selling or
> >> > > >leasing ultrasound equipment for the making
> of
> >> > > "keepsake" fetal videos
> >> > > >could be breaking the law. Although the
> ultrasound
> >> > > devices are
> >> > > >regulated by the FDA and, as such, the FDA
> can take
> >> > > action against the
> >> > > >"keepsake" video industry for using a
> prescription
> >> > > device without a
> >> > > >prescription from a medical professional,
> the
> >> > > qualifications and
> >> > > >behavior of technicians and physicians is
> regulated
> >> > > by the states.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >"In the new Manhattan studio's first month,
> more
> >> > > than 40 mothers-to-be
> >> > > >have paid $300 each for a procedure that
> could have
> >> > > dire consequences,"
> >> > > >said Senator Skelos. "Even General
> Electric, the
> >> > > leading seller of 4D
> >> > > >ultrasound machines, has joined the Medical
> >> > > Society, the American
> >> > > >Institute of Ultrasound in Medicine,
> American
> >> > > College of Obstetricians
> >> > > >and Gynecologists and the New York State
> >> > > Radiological Society to express
> >> > > >its opposition to the use this equipment for
> >> > > nonmedical purposes. Until
> >> > > >all the risks associated with this new
> technology
> >> > > are completely known,
> >> > > >we must make every effort to err on the side
> of
> >> > > public safety."
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
>
>http://www.senatordeanskelos.org/press_archive_story.asp?id=8664
> >> > > >
> >> > > >art
> >> > > >
> >> > > >At Fri, 14 May 2004, art fougner, md wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>Terry
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>In the US as you well know, every afternoon
> you
> >> > > can channel surf and
> >> > > >>find a court show. Americans are afflicted
> with
> >> > > lawsuit mania. If
> >> > > >>something bad happens, even if they don't
> feel
> >> > > that way, someone in the
> >> > > >>family or a neighbor encourages them to
> sue. And
> >> > > that is how those
> >> > > >>cases will go to litigation. Not
> necessarily
> >> > > because we agree with the
> >> > > >>principle but because that's the American
> way.
> >> > > Just as a woman can
> >> > > >>place a cup of hot coffee between her
> thighs and
> >> > > get burned and then sue
> >> > > >>McDonald's, just as folks who could read a
> pack of
> >> > > cigarettes but smoke
> >> > > >>anyway could sue, just as folks who get fat
> and
> >> > > bloated by subjecting
> >> > > >>themselves to supersized whoopers could
> sue, that
> >> > > is how folks will sue
> >> > > >>the Fetal Fotomats. And the disclaimer
> about we
> >> > > don't do medical will
> >> > > >>hold up about as well as the "Not
> Responsible"
> >> > > disclaimer in the parking
> >> > > >>lot will hold up. It will sooner or later
> be up
> >> > > to a jury to decide.
> >> > > >>And once that happens, the game is afoot.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>Terry, I agree with you in principle but
> there is
> >> > > a dearth of FDA
> >> > > >>inspectors for Ultrasound labs so the
> Fotomats
> >> > > can, as Monty Python
> >> > > >>exclaimed, "Fart in their general
> direction."
> >> > > Caveat emptor will prevail
> >> > > >>here - for better or for worse. Therefore,
> it is
> >> > > up to us to provide
> >> > > >>for our patients our best efforts and let
> the
> >> > > chips fall where they may.
> >> > > >>We can only hope that Karma prevails. And
> it
> >> > > usually does. Again, the
> >> > > >>pity is that the same folks who
> unhesitatingly
> >> > > fork over a wad of cash
> >> > > >>money for their Foto-op are the same folks
> who
> >> > > fight tooth and nail to
> >> > > >>forgo the meager copay at your lab when you
> >> > > participate with their
> >> > > >>insurance plan. To quote Yacov Smirnoff -
> "
> >> > > America - What a Country!"
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>At Fri, 14 May 2004, DuBose, Terry wrote:
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>Art, will an uneducated, unskilled, &
> unwashed
> >> > > person who doesn't have a
> >> > > >>>clue as to the difference between a
> uterine
> >> > > synechia vs. an amniotic
> >> > > >>>band, and won't care because it isn't a
> "medical"
> >> > > exam, be held to the
> >> > > >>>same standard as a registered sonographer
> or MD?
> >> > > This, I fear is the
> >> > > >>>fallacy in the legal solution to this
> problem.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>Given enough time the "unwashed" will
> develop the
> >> > > psychomotor skills to
> >> > > >>>acquire pretty pictures of faces, but
> won't have
> >> > > a clue about VSDs, etc.
> >> > > >>>and won't care. In time the public will
> come to
> >> > > view these folks as
> >> > > >>>the real face of sonography because that
> is the
> >> > > "fun" part; and the real
> >> > > >>>sonographers will become the gnomes in the
> bowels
> >> > > of the hospital,
> >> > > >>>giving out the bad news. We will be held
> to a
> >> > > higher standard because
> >> > > >>>of our experience, while the uneducated
> will be
> >> > > able to throw up their
> >> > > >>>hands and exclaim "gastroschisis, what is
> that?
> >> > > Who knew?"
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>Unless the FDA actually enforces their own
> >> > > regulations on non-medical
> >> > > >>>uses, then the legal system will not treat
> all by
> >> > > the same standards.
> >> > > >>>The FDA needs to either enforce their own
> regs or
> >> > > release us all to
> >> > > >>>compete in the "free market", and then we
> can
> >> > > beat the unwashed at their
> >> > > >>>own game. I include registered
> sonographers in
> >> > > this issue of the "free
> >> > > >>>market".
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>"Just my opinion, I could be wrong."
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>Assistant Professor & Director
> >> > > >>>Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
> >> > > >>>University of Arkansas for Medical
> Sciences, CHRP
> >> > > >>>4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
> >> > > >>>Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
> >> > > >>>501-686-6510
> >> > > >>>DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
> >> > > >>>http://www.io.com/~dubose/
> >> > > >>>http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
> >> > > >>>http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
> >> > >
> >> >
>
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> >> >
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> >> >
>
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> >> > >
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> >> >
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>
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> >> >
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>
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> >> >
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>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >>>-----Original Message-----
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> >> > >
> >> >
>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >>>From: ultrasound@obgyn.net
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
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>
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> >> > >
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> >> >
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>
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> >> > >
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> >> >
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>
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> >> >
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> >> >
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>
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> >> > > >>>art fougner, md
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> >> > >
> >> >
>
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> >> > > >>>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:04 AM
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> >> >
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>
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> >> > >
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> >> >
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>
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> >> >
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>
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>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >>>To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
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> >> >
>
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> >> > >
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> >> >
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>
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> >> > > >>>Subject: Re: Keepsake 3D
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
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>
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> >> > > >>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >>>i'm equally sure that there are anomalies
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
> missed
> >> > > at non-3D sites as
> >> > > >>>well. the glass house has many rooms.
> yogi had
> >> > > it right - "it ain't
> >> > > >>>over til it's over."
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>however, the missed anomalies will come
> back to
> >> > > haunt the Keepsake
> >> > > >>>Centers as it already has haunted us all -
> if you
> >> > > perform an ultrasound
> >> > > >>>for whatever reason, my feeling is that
> you
> >> > > should and will be held to
> >> > > >>>the published standards.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>art
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>At Thu, 13 May 2004, David Nyberg wrote:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>Larry
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>I know of a case here in Phoenix where a
> >> > > reputable group missed a cleft
> >> > > >>>lip/palate that was then picked up by a
> >> > > commericial 3D site 2 weeks
> >> > > >>>later. I know that's not what you're
> looking
> >> > > for, but it could work
> >> > > >>>both ways. Of course a 3D site may be
> more
> >> > > likely to pick up facial
> >> > > >>>abnormalities since that's where their
> focus is.
> >> > > I'm sure there are
> >> > > >>>plenty of nonfacial abnormalities missed
> by 3D
> >> > > sites.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>Dave
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>On Thu, 13 May 2004 LDPLATT@aol.com
> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>> Does anyone have or kno a patientw of
> had a
> >> > > keepsake video done in
> >> > > >>>one of the
> >> > > >>>>> "commercial"centers who subsequently
> had a
> >> > > major fetal abnormality
> >> > > >>>??? If
> >> > > >>>>> so would they be willing to talk about
> the
> >> > > experience? Thanks
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> Larry Platt
> >> > > ldplatt@aol.com
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>--
> >> > > >>>>David Nyberg, MD
> >> > > >>>>10401 E McDowell Mtn Ranch Rd
> >> > > >>>>#2-372
> >> > > >>>>Scottsdale, AZ 85255
> >> > > >>>>ph cell 480-797-0993
> >> > > >>>>fax 480-512-8737
> >> > > >>>>work 480-512-3850
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>--
> >> > > >>>art fougner, md
> >> > > >>>ich bin ein New Yorker
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>--
> >> > > >>art fougner, md
> >> > > >>ich bin ein New Yorker
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >--
> >> > > >art fougner, md
> >> > > >ich bin ein New Yorker
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > art fougner, md
> >> > > ich bin ein New Yorker
> >> >
> >> > =====
> >> > David J. Berck, MD, MPH
> >>
> >--
> >David Nyberg, MD
> >10401 E McDowell Mtn Ranch Rd
> >#2-372
> >Scottsdale, AZ 85255
> >ph cell 480-797-0993
> >fax 480-512-8737
> >work 480-512-3850
> >
>
> --
> art fougner, md
> ich bin ein New Yorker
=====
David J. Berck, MD, MPH
