Re: Early Cardiac Function Predicts Miscarriage Risk
From: Greg Kesby (greg.kesby@sufw.com.au)
Wed Feb 11 14:50:16 2004
The early embryo is known to only require low PO2. All the Postimplantation
Embryo Culture Experiments done in rodents and opossums (in the
1970's)require just 5% O2 for neurulation and early organogenesis. Higher O2
is actually toxic. Look up the work of D. A. T. New at Cambridge University
if you are interested
Day 12 rat embryos (equivalent to 1st trimester embryos in humans) will live
in saline at room temperature for hours. I agree they are beautiful to
observe.
--
Greg Kesby
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diana Ross [SMTP:thewavenewsletter@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2004 8:16 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
> Subject: Re: Early Cardiac Function Predicts Miscarriage Risk
>
> Wow! I am totally blown away by this experiment! YOU MUST PUBLISH IT!
>
> Sorry I am so late in viewing this email... I am way, way, way behind!
>
> Diana
>
> "Wolfgang Moroder, M.D." <wolfgang.moroder@tin.it> wrote:
>
> There is a tentative proof of how little oxygen the embryonic heart
> needs.
> One night I was on call in my ward and I diagnosed a tubal pregnancy
> at
> 8 weeks post mens. I took the patient to the OR, did a salpingotomy
> and
> gave the intact embryo to the nurse to put it in saline. After
> surgery
> I was still busy with some other urgent work and after some 60-80
> minutes I took the embryo to the ultrasound room to do some in vitro
> scanning. What I sow was quite impressive and you can see it if you
> download the ultrasound clip invitro.avi from here:
> http://mio.discoremoto.virgilio.it/moroder/invitro.avi
> please click on "salva" which means download in Italian. It will
> take
> some time since the clip is 1.5 MB.
> Well after the embryo of 8 weeks was kept more than an our in saline
> the
> heart was still beating.
> Maybe Terry you could publish this as a experimental case?
> Best regards
> Wolfgang
>
> At Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Terry J DuBose wrote:
> >
> >----__JNP_000_2e2d.11ee.491b
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> >t;
> >For some reason I can no longer respond to messages from my
> office... had
> >to forward this response home and send from there. Terry
> >------------------------------------------
> >Art, I saw this,... it is very interesting. The bit about lack of
> >------------------------------------------
> >------------------------------------------
> >------------------------------------------
> >oxygen in the embryonic period is new, I think:
> >------------------------------------------
> >
> >------------------------------------------
> >"The cause of embryonic congestive heart failure - not enough
> >------------------------------------------
> oxygen
> >reaching the heart - is much the same in embryos as it is in the
> >elderly," Dr. Birnholz said. "I suspect that if the blood vessels
> that
> >feed the placenta do not properly form or are slightly delayed in
> >development, the heart does not get the support required."
> >
> >Because the embryonic heart rate (EHR) acceleration and
> deceleration
> >curve has the shape of a classic "damping feedback curve" ( see:
> >http://www.obgyn.net/us/cotm/0001/ehr2000b.htm ), we have always
> thought
> >that there were probably 3 or more variables that control the shape
> of
> >the curve. In addition, because the curve peaks (9.2 LMP weeks) at
> about
> >the same time as the hCG and when the ventricular septum closes, we
> >assumed that the variables may include electrical (bundle of His &
> 2
> >branches
> >completion), hydraulic (VS closure), or hormonal (hCG curve), but
> did not
> >consider the oxygen. Of course, the oxygen might influence one or
> more
> >of the variables, including normal ventricular closure or other
> >development.
> >
> >I will be anxious to see the published research... both for the new
> >information, as well as to see if our work will be referenced.
> >DuBose TJ, Cunyus JA, Johnson LF; Embryonic Heart Rate and Age; J
> of
> >Diagnostic Medical Sonography; 6:151-157, 1990, May/June
> >
> >Peace, Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS
> >Little Rock, Arkansas USA
> >
> >At Wed, 3 Dec 2003, art fougner, md wrote:
> >
> > Radiological Society of North America 03.12.2003
> >
> > Doppler ultrasound predicts risk of miscarriage
> >
> >Doppler ultrasound performed in early pregnancy can accurately
> identify
> >embryonic congestive heart failure and subsequent risk of
> miscarriage,
> >according to research being presented today at the 89th Scientific
> >Assembly and Annual Meeting of the Radiological Society of North
> America
> >(RSNA).
> >
> >"The chances the pregnancy will continue are very high, about 95
> >percent, when Doppler ultrasound confirms normal embryonic heart
> >function at six weeks," said the study's author Jason C. Birnholz,
> >M.D., president of Diagnostic Ultrasound Consultants in Oak Brook,
> Ill.
> >"Over 99 percent of pregnancies with an abnormal Doppler pattern do
> not
> >continue." The Doppler test measures the speed of red blood cells
> moving
> >through vessels to determine pressure dynamics within the embryo's
> >heart.
> >
> >Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
> >Assistant Professor & Director, Diagnostic Medical Sonography
> Program
> >University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP
> >4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
> >Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
> >501-686-6510
> >DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
> >http://www.io.com/~dubose/
> >http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp
> >http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
> >----__JNP_000_2e2d.11ee.491b
> >Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> >For some reason I can no longer respond to messages from my
> office..
> >hadto forward this response home and send from there. Terr
> >------------------------------------------Art, I saw this,... it i
> very
> >------------------------------------------Art, I saw this,... it i
> >interesting. The bit about lack ofooxygen in the embryonic =
> >------------------------------------------Art, I saw this,... it i
> >------------------------------------------Art, I saw this,... it i
> very
> >------------------------------------------Art, I saw this,... it i
> >period=20
> >------------------------------------------Art, I saw this,... it i
> very
> >------------------------------------------Art, I saw this,... it i
> >is new, I think:"The cause of embryonic congestive heart failure -
> not
> >enough oxygenreaching the heart - is much the same in embryos as it
> is in
> >theelderly," Dr. Birnholz said. "I suspect that if the blood
> >vessels that feed the placenta do not properly form or are slightly
> delayed
> >in development, the heart does not get the support required."
>
> >the embryonic heart rate (EHR) acceleration and decelerationcurve
> has the
> >shape of a classic "damping feedback curve" ( see:
>
> >href="http://www.obgyn.net/us/cotm/0001/ehr2000b.htm">http://www.obgyn
> net/us/cotm/0001/ehr2000b.htm
> >), we have always thoughtthat there were probably 3 or more
> variables that
> >control the shape ofthe curve. In addition, because the curve
> peaks
> >(9.2 LMP weeks) at aboutthe same time as the hCG and when the
> ventricular
> >septum closes, weassumed that the variables may include electrical
> bundle
> >of His & 2branchescompletion), hydraulic (VS closure), or hormonal
> >(hCG curve), but did notconsider the oxygen. Of course, th
> >oxygen might influence one or moreof the variables, including
> normal
> >ventricular closure or otherdevelopment. I will b
> >anxious to see the published research... both for the
> newinformation, as well
> >as to see if our work will be referenced.
> >DuBose TJ, Cunyus JA,
> >Johnson LF; Embryonic Heart Rate and Age; J of Diagnostic Medical
> Sonography;
> >6:151-157, 1990, May/June Peace, Terry J. DuBose, M. .,
> >RDMSLittle Rock, Arkansas USAAt Wed, 3 Dec 2003, ar
> >fougner, md wrote: Radiological Society of North America
> >03.12.2003 Doppler ultrasound predicts risk of
> >miscarriageDoppler ultrasound performed in early pregnancy can
> >accurately identify embryonic congestive heart failure and
> subsequent risk
> >of miscarriage, according to research being presented today at the
> 89t
> >Scientific Assembly and Annual Meeting of the Radiological Society
> of North
> >America (RSNA)."The chances the pregnancy will continue are very
> >high, about 95 percent, when Doppler ultrasound confirms normal
> embryonic
> >heart function at six weeks," said the study's author Jason C.
> >Birnholz, M.D., president of Diagnostic Ultrasound Consultants in
> Oak Brook,
> >Ill. "Over 99 percent of pregnancies with an abnormal Doppler
> pattern do not
> >continue." The Doppler test measures the speed of red blood cells
> moving
> >through vessels to determine pressure dynamics within the embryo's
> >heart.Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>
> >Professor & Director, Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>
> >of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP 4301 West Markham St. Mail
> Slot #563
> >Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA 501-686-6510
> >href="mailto:DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu">DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
> >href="http://www.io.com/~dubose/">http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>
> >href="http://www.uams.edu/chrp/dms/default.asp">http://www.uams.edu/chrp
> dms/default.asp
>
> >href="http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm">http://www.obgyn.net/us
> panel/panel.htm
> >
> >----__JNP_000_2e2d.11ee.491b--
>
> --
> Wolfgang Moroder, MD
> Prenatal Unit
> Bolzano General Hospital Italy
>
> Diana Ross, RT, RDMS
>
> Editor, The WAVE~~~Online Newsletter for Sonographers of All Disciplines
> <http://thewave.www.50megs.com>
>
> <http://thewave.www.50megs.com>
>
> _____
>
