Re: ULTRASOUND digest 1726
From: jan hou (janhou@earthlink.net)
Wed Sep 25 13:33:23 2002
The Entertainment Echos do not take the place of a Diagnostic Medical
Sonograms which is included in most new mothers check-up. There is a
shortage of RDMS, and I believe there will always be work for you. So why
keep complaining about Entertainment Echos?
Jan, RDMS
-----Original Message-----
From: ultrasound@obgyn.net [mailto:ultrasound@obgyn.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ULTRASOUND
Subject: ULTRASOUND digest 1726
ULTRASOUND Digest 1726
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: RE: Entertainment Echos
by "Terry J. DuBose" <duboseterryj@uams.edu>
2) Undocumented Info in 3 languages !!!
by "Karen.S" <4w50m@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:02:27 -0500
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Terry J. DuBose" <duboseterryj@uams.edu>
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To: sonographers-connection@lists.UCHSC.edu
Cc: ultrasound@obgyn.net, board@SDMS.org
Subject: Re: Entertainment Echos
Message-ID: <fc.00802e0500254c073b9aca00aa0c063d.254c24@uams.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Ann, thanks for the heads-up on this... that is the best way to make this
happen. Spread the word around so more folks know about the article.
Thanks, Terry
sonographers-connection@lists.UCHSC.edu writes:
> I may have a way to fight these folks!! In this weeks Newsweek is a very
tiny article entitled "Dancing Babies" pg. 74 (saddam is on the cover). It
is by Claudia Kalb and it discusses "4-d" and the fact that about only 300
sites have this GE machine, they're mostly used to spot problems with high
risk pregnancies, "no insurer will cover,and no Doctor should perform a scan
solely for your scrapbook"!
>
>If anyone would be interested I ,Or any of you, can try to contact this
lady to see if she, or someone else on staff, would listen to our side of
Fetal photo exploits. She seems to have gotten the ball rolling let's see
if we can keep it going in our direction. If I did reach her, can I refer
her to you Terry and Paula (AIUM)? You two have so far been the most
voiceterous about these folks.
>
>Give me some feed back please. Thanks!!
>
>Opinions expressed above are not necessarily those expressed by Baptist
College of Health Sciences or BMHCC
>
>Ann Willis BA, RDMS, RVT, RT Instructor Diagnostic Medical Sonography
Office (901-572-2649) Beeper (901-227-7243 #2952)
>
>Fax (901-572-2750)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Terry J DuBose [mailto:tjdubose@juno.com]
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 10:12 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list SONOGRAPHERS-CONNECTION
>Subject: Re: Entertainment Echos
>
>Sara, "How to fight it?” that is the question. If the FDA isn't going to
enforce their own regulations, then what can anyone do? If you take a hammer
to a machine being used by an unregistered person, you will be jailed for
destroying their property.
>
>Obviously, stamping our feet and shouting "No, you can't do this without
proper education and training" is not stopping it. Entertainment is
proliferating... and it is all over TV. The public is demanding it as a part
of having a "thoroughly modern pregnancy". Yet, legitimate medical practices
have to beg the insurance and managed care corporations to be reimbursed for
real diagnostic sonograms, and those are done in a rushed manner because
there are too few educated sonographers and too many
>patients in the waiting rooms. So the patients turn to their “friendly”
Fetal Foto center.
>
>We appear to be losing this battle, which is why I favor the profession
taking some kind of direct action. If the FDA, AMA, ACR, ACOG, AIUM, SDMS
and the rest can not stop it, sonographers will have to go out and give the
public better service. I realize that this is against everything I have ever
believed in, but if no one is going to stop this entertainment thing, what
else can we do? It will mean that sonographers will have to take more legal
responsibility for our scans, and this is new
>terrain that will have to be redefined. It isn't going to be easy, but we
may have to take this next step if the "authorities" can't stop it.
>
>If we give them enough time the uncertified Fetal Foto folks will gain just
enough skill to make “pretty baby faces”, but they will not recognize
anatomy and pathology, and they won’t care because they are “nonmedical”.
Yet it will be they who inherit the public’s goodwill because they are doing
the fun part and what the public wants. It turns my stomach. Our students
study hard for four (2+2) years without pay while spending thousands on
their education, and they should not be bound by
>these barriers while the uneducated, and in many cases unwashed, go about
their merry way.
>
>It isn’t right.
>Terry J DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>
>On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:06:57 -0600 "Sara Rutledge" <[
mailto:srutledge@nmhs.net ]srutledge@nmhs.net> writes:
>> Terry:
>>
>> Again, to maybe separate the two lines of discussion.
>>
>> This is the tough one. To get really basic.
>>
>> Would I want pictures from Walmart; K-Mart taken of my
>> wedding/graduation/etc or would I prefer
>> a photographer with a degree taking my wedding pictures?
>>
>> Duh!
>>
>> How to fight it? I'm sorry I don't have an answer - This is where
>> the public must seek their own
>> answer or the state (read government) needs to evaluate the business
>> license vs medical
>> regulations.
>>
>> Does anyone have an answer?
>>
>> Sara, RDCS
>>
>> >>> [ mailto:tjdubose@juno.com ]tjdubose@juno.com 09/20/02 06:52PM >>>
>> If we can't stop them, then we will have to compete with them and
>> beat
>> them at our game.
>> How do you suggest we do this? Quite frankly I am sick of it as well
>> and
>> I would love to do whatever it takes."
>>
>> ----------------------------
>> Kelly, that is a tough question... without a ready answer. It is
>> ----------------------------
>> also a
>> ----------------------------
>> bit of a different discussion. There are two topics here that are
>> related. This thread has joined the two topics. The question of
>> how
>> accredited sonographic educational programs show good "outcomes" if
>> they
>> can't get/require their graduates to sit for the ARDMS because they
>> are
>> getting jobs without it, has been joined with the other topic of
>> licensure for sonographers.
>>
>> Sara is suggesting one answer: "What other professions are requiring
>> licensure or a credential prior to graduation? Nursing - I don't
>> think
>> so; I do not recall my son having to pass the Bar exam prior to
>> getting
>> a law degree."
>>
>> However, this is where the two topics get confused. First licensure
>> is
>> not certification. Licensure is a law that prohibits people from
>> practicing certain professions without demonstrating some level of
>> expertise... education, examination, internship, or a combination of
>> those. Licensure is established to protect the public from the
>> pulous; like hairdressers and barbers who drop their combs on the
>> floor, pick them up, and spread cooties. Certification only means
>> you
>> have passed a certifying examination... but because the ARDMS
>> requires
>> prerequisites that include clinical, sonographers do have clinical
>> internships, education (now that OJT is going away), and
>> examinations.
>> But we have no law, and because there is no law we have non-medical
>> "entertainment" sonography.
>>
>> The difference for lawyers, physicians, nurses, and barbers (among
>> others) is that they have licensure in every state. This means that
>> you
>> have to have appropriate education and pass an examination to
>> qualify for
>> the license... that is the state law. This is not unlike
>> sonography, we
>> have education and an examination, except we do not have a law
>> granting
>> us a license. Those licensed professions are much larger than we
>> are,
>> and much older. It wasn't always true that they had licensure, they
>> had
>> to grow and lobby to get those laws passed... state by state.
>>
>> The primary organizations maintaining a lobbying presence for
>> sonographers in Washington DC are the SDMS and SVU. If you really
>> want
>> to make a difference you must join those organizations and
>> participate.
>> The AIUM is also a good organization, except they don't lobby for
>> sonographers because their members can't seem to agree on what to
>> do...
>> at least that is how it appears to me (my opinion, I am speaking for
>> no
>> one else).
>>
>> The alternative to state licensure is to get the FDA to enforce
>> their
>> own, existing regulations which forbid the non-medical use of
>> certain
>> medical instruments... sonographic machines among them. However,
>> the FDA
>> indicates that their budget has been cut, and they have to worry
>> about
>> more really dangerous things. We have done too good a job
>> convincing
>> everyone, including the FDA apparently, that sonography IS SAFE.
>> Also,
>> the corporate culture in control of our current federal
>> administration
>> does not like any kind of regulation of businesses, and I am not
>> holding
>> my breath until they give the FDA adequate funding to do their job,
>> nor
>> for the manufacturers to self-regulate their sales for use by RDMS
>> certifed only.
>>
>> The only other alternative that I see, other than continuing the
>> status
>> quo and letting just anyone grab the transducer (clearly a
>> disaster), is
>> for ARDMS certified sonographers to open their own businesses and
>> beat
>> the untrained folks doing "entertainment" at their own game. The
>> public
>> is not stupid, and I think ARDMS certified sonographers can do a
>> much
>> better job, even in the "entertainment" business.
>>
>> Now, before anyone fires up the flamethrowers... let me be clear. I
>> have
>> loved working in sonography since 1976 as a part of some great
>> medical
>> diagnostic teams. I am also really committed to quality education
>> for
>> sonographers and I like being in academia. So my first preference
>> is to
>> make sure that sonography is practiced at a high level of
>> professionalism. HOWEVER, if no one (read FDA, AMA, ACR, ACOG,
>> AIUM,
>> SDMS, et al) is going to stop this absurd non-medical entertainment
>> trend, or if they can not stop it, then we must take a different
>> course.
>> Allowing the uneducated, unskilled, and that bunch of "church
>> ladies"
>> down here in the South to take over our profession is not an option
>> for
>> me... better that we beat them at the game... which really is our
>> game.
>>
>> This will be a hot topic of discussion at the SDMS in Atlanta the
>> first
>> week of October.... the profession of Sonography is up in the air
>> right
>> now, and we really need to get "it" together, decide on a direction,
>> and
>> all go there together. We are not a huge profession, there are only
>> about 40,000 RDMS sonographers nation wide (and only about 1/4th of
>> those
>> are supporting the lobbying efforts), but there are 20,000 members
>> of the
>> Arkansas Nursing Association alone... & Arkansas is a small state
>> with
>> fewer than 400 RDMS. Our work is cut out for us... We must stick
>> together, and make sonography the great profession it can be...
>> should
>> be. Nobody else will do it for us.
>>
>> Hope I see you in Atlanta in a couple of weeks.
>>
>> Peace, Terry J DuBose
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:36:43 -0600 [
mailto:Ultravas02@aol.com ]Ultravas02@aol.com writes:
>> In a message dated 9/20/02 1:59:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> [ mailto:duboseterryj@uams.edu ]duboseterryj@uams.edu writes:
>>
>> If we can't stop them, then we will have to compete with them and
>> beat
>> them at our game.
>>
>> How do you suggest we do this? Quite frankly I am sick of it as well
>> and
>> I would love to do whatever it takes.
>>
>> Kelly Estes RDMS RDCS RVT
>>
>
Peace, Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS
Assistant Professor & Director, Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP
4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
501-686-6510
DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
http://www.io.com/~dubose/
http://www.uams.edu/CHRP/dmshome.htm
http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 04:59:33 +0200
------------------------------
From: "Karen.S" <4w50m@hotmail.com>
------------------------------
To: ultrasound@obgyn.net
Subject: Undocumented Info in 3 languages !!!
Message-ID: <200209240159.g8O1xdT14968@mail.medispecialty.com>
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Best regards,
------------------------------
End of ULTRASOUND Digest 1726
------------------------------
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