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Re: What's going on here!!!?
From: Kay (anonymous@obgyn.net)
Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:24:12 -0500 (CDT)
Kristen--I don't think anyone was "fussing" at each other, just sharing
info that they've come across. Just because two people don't agree 100%
doesn't mean that they don't respect each other and get along ok. Just
ask my dh! :o)
:o)Kay
At Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Kristen wrote:
>
>What in the world is going on here. This is usually a place I come for
>understanding and peace of mind for finding out about this horrid syndrome
>that ties us all together. Did some of you eat too many carbies lately?
>Let's quit being so bitchy to each other. We're all here for the same reason
>(at least I thought so) and that's to help each other with this syndrome.I
>don't mean to sound hateful, but it's not any fun when everyone just fusses.
>
>>From: anonymous@obgyn.net (paula)
>>Reply-To: anonymous@obgyn.net
>>To: Multiple recipients of list PCOS <anonymous@obgyn.net>
>>Subject: seeking advice, long indeed, reply to belle and cate
>>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:50:24 -0500
>>
>>Belle, i do not take this as a personal insult. i have just been tod
>>through my own reserarch, but mainly from everydoctor that i have been
>>to that
>>
>>1) for women who are obese (like myself) cysts are harder to confirm
>>without a vaginal ultrasound. while they do not HAVE to be present for
>>the confirmation of pcos, i was mearly suggesting this was an option if
>>indeed cate had not had one. i know this to be true because, in a 1
>>week span, i had a "normal" ultrasound (looking through the tummy
>>through a full bladder) which showed absoulty no cysts on my ovaries,
>>and within 6 days later had a vaginal which showed ovaries covered with
>>cysts. i do not believe the amount of cysts that were on my ovaries the
>>second time could have formed in that amount of time and asked my doc.
>>he informed me that while some could have the sheer amount of them would
>>have cause pain had that happened. i trust him immensily and had had no
>>pain.
>>
>>i stand firm by the belief that the igtt is a necessary test, but i also
>>so not think it should be the first. it is a long, expensive, time
>>consuming and taxing test that in some women like myself could be
>>avoided by a simple fasting insulin. i do however realize that some drs
>>are lothe to perform the igtt after a fasting insulin comes back as
>>"normal" so do see your point. i just do not let my doctors push me
>>around. i get the tests i ask for.
>>
>>i have neither spoken to anyone or heard of anyone (though i believe
>>you) who has not suffered some digestive problems being on
>>glucophage/met. i am sure they exist, mainly wanted cate to know there
>>are side effects, which go away and then you begin to feel better. i am
>>much more regulated on the glucophage.
>>
>>finally as to the renal problems associated with kidney function. i
>>only have this to say. i have been to a diabetic nutritionist, i have
>>been to a R.E. i have been to a gastronilogist, i have been to many
>>many many doctors thst have informed me that indeed when you reduce your
>>amount of carbs below a certain level you will induce ketosis in your
>>kindey (which for a short time will cause little damage) but long term
>>will lead to kidney problems. If this were not enough for me, my
>>grandfather had cronic renal failure, which eventually, which all of his
>>doctors attributed to his lack of carb intake.
>>
>>i am not trying to preach a certain level of carbs everyone should be
>>on, i am simply stating that reducing carbs taxes your kidneys, taking
>>met/glucophage taxes your kindeys. now me personally i value my
>>kidneys, i am not going to lower my carbs below a certain point without
>>the supervision and wisdom of a doctor.that is exactly what i a
>>recommending for all of you. that if you are doing this on your own, i
>>would stay around 30% carbs, if you want to go lower, please consult
>>your doctor.
>>
>>i do not take others advice as a personal insult. i always research any
>>and all information i post here, and i do not take advice unless i find
>>another source to back that advice up. i expect others to do the same
>>with anything i post.
>>
>>i believe i gave honest accurate advice to cate, and i wish someone
>>would have posted the same thing for me when istarted this journey. i
>>am not willing to go on the hopes that since there has been no reaserch
>>to prove there are kidney problems resulting from the lack of carbs, i
>>would rather error on the side of saftey and protect what organs of mine
>>that i can protect.
>>
>>love, paula
>>
>>At Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Belle wrote:
>> >
>> >*Cate* Paula has written a response to you that I would like to comment
>> >on. She is basically correct but I think that it could confuse you
>> >further.
>> >
>> >*Paula*, I would have e-mailed you privately about this but we are not
>> >supposed to do that so I hope you do not take this to be a personal
>> >insult. I am just trying to clarify some things.
>> >
>> >*Many* women with POCS have insulin resistance (IR), sosme drs think
>> >that all women would have insulin problems show up if the tests were
>> >sensitive enough, but as it stands, this is neither proven or proveable.
>> >
>> >The primary test that you should ask for is the Gllucose Tolerance Test
>> >with insulin levels. This test will include the fasting levels as well
>> >as give you an indication of how your body uses glucose and insulin in
>> >response to a glucose infusion. Time after time, we have seen on here
>> >how someone has asked for the fasting insulin and glucose and when it
>> >returned normal, the dr did not feel that any further testing was
>> >necessary. That is because many of the drs have dealt with diabetics
>> >before and a fasting level will usually tell if a problem is necessary.
>> >IR is a different way of thinking. If you are able to ask for specific
>> >tests, ask for the right one the first time so that you will not have
>> >difficulties the next time you go. The 2 hour test should be
>> >sufficient. I have *never* seen anyone (that I can recall) who did not
>> >show a problem by the 2nd hour. The 4th and 5th hours are to determine
>> >hypoglycemia and not IR anyhow. They are almost totally phased out
>> >because of the danger to the client. The insulin is the hormone that
>> >enables you to use the glucose (or sugars) in your food.
>> >
>> >Ovarian cysts are not necessary for you to have PCOS. The name was
>> >determined before this was discovered. You do not need to undergo an
>> >invasive vaginal ultrasound. The dr should be able to diagnose you with
>> >PCOS (if this is the correct diagnosis for you) by the blood work in
>> >conjunction with physical apperance (according to the New England
>> >Journal of Medicine).
>> >
>> >If you are IR, your dr *could* put you on metformin(Glucophage). This
>> >is not the medical standard yet and it has not been approved for the use
>> >in women with PCOS. It is actually a diabetic medication that enables
>> >our bodies to use the insulin more efficiently. Many of us here are on
>> >metformin and many of us have seen great improvement in our conditions.
>> >It can cause some abdominal distress but not everyone suffers from it
>> >and it is a temporary condition.
>> >
>> >A low-carb diet does seem to be best for us. I would not worry about
>> >reducing your carb intake. You do need some but there is no certain
>> >level at which you should be concerned. There is no research to my
>> >knowledge that indicates that protein of any kind will affect your
>> >kidneys. There is research to indicate that when the kidneys of
>> >vegetarians and those who eat meat were studied, there have been *no*
>> >difference in the true "age" of the kidneys, meaning that the kidneys
>> >were no more damaged in one lifestyle over the other. There have been
>> >dietitians who have come out to say that you should not have a low-carb
>> >diet but usually these people use one "fits-all" diet for everyone.
>> >These people are not drs and have been instructed to follow the FDA
>> >guidelines for diet. This is not scientific, traditional, but not
>> >scientific. The Adkin's diet has been used for over 20 years and on the
>> >whole, I suspect (based on case studies) that people lose weight, lower
>> >their cholesterol, lower their blood pressure and are healthier.
>> >Personally, I know that I eat too many carbs but the choice is up to
>> >you. You should not let a dr try to pressure you into a specific diet.
>> >I have worked with them for 15 years and I would bet that 75% of them
>> >are over weight.
>> >
>> >As far as being in the UK, we have had several women pop in to the board
>> >and have reported success. I wish I could tell you who they are but I
>> >am afraid that I cannot remember. In the states, we are probably just a
>> >little more pushy with the information that we have. We still have
>> >remarkable difficulties getting PCOS diagnosed and treated.
>> >
>> >There is an herbal PCOS board, maybe someone could tell you where it is.
>> >Many of us use Chromium GTF to help correct the insulin problem. Some
>> >women have found help with Inositol. This is the basis for the drug
>> >that is currently being tested for use in women with PCOS. I have not
>> >found help with this but others have and I would definately try it if I
>> >had to do it all again. If you go back through the archives, you will
>> >be able to see other herbal treatments that have been used.
>> >
>> >I hope that you get the help you deserve.
>> >
>> >At Wed, 5 Jul 2000, paula wrote:
>> >>
>> >>First of all dear, your weight is not the cause of pcos, it is the
>> >>opposite. Your pcos would be the cause of the weight gain. usually
>> >>women with pcos have a condition called insulin resistance. since there
>> >>seem to be no cysts on you ovaries, you should ask your doctor to
>> >>perform some blood tests. Primarily, a fasting glucuse (blood sugar)
>> >>and a fasting insulin (insulin is the horomone secreted by your pancreas
>> >>that manages how your body deals with the food you eat).
>> >>
>> >>when your body is insulin resistance, the food you eat is not processed
>> >>by the insulin correctly. this throws off most horomone production in
>> >>your body, resulting in increased testerone (the male horomone)
>> >>production, explaining the excess hair. and also causes the spottiness
>> >>on your body.
>> >>
>> >>ok i hope this was not too complicated, because i left out alot of the
>> >>details to make it more simple. this is not EXACTLY how it works, but
>> >>it sums it up a bit.
>> >>
>> >>now if the fasting insulin and glucose MAY show up normal. if this
>> >>happens, dont be discouraged, many women with pcos show up as normal.
>> >>what you show do in this event is request/demand a IGTT test (insulin
>> >>and glucose tolerance test). you may need to push this issue since
>> >>often doctors are reluctant to do it. it is a 3-5 hour test. it
>> >>involves you drinking a glucose liquid and then the docs moniter both
>> >>your insulin reaction as well as your glucose levels.
>> >>
>> >>when you have your ultrasound, was it vaginal? if you are overweight, as
>> >>many of us are, it can sometimes be difficult for the doctors to see
>> >>cysts with out a vaginal ultrasound.
>> >>
>> >>finally after all then tests, if you come back as having insulin
>> >>resistance, your doctor should place you on a drug called metformin
>> >>(also known as glucophage). usually you will start at a 500mg per day
>> >>level then move up by 500mg per week until you reach a level of
>> >>1500-2000mg per day. if you go on this expect some nausea and diherria,
>> >>but the side effects will go away about a week after you meet your
>> >>maximun dosage.
>> >>
>> >>also the best way for women with insulin resistance to lose weight is to
>> >>begin a low-carb diet. our opinions about which diet vary, but from my
>> >>research and my particular doctor's recommendation you should start with
>> >>a diet made up of at least 30% carbohydrates. then if that does not
>> >>assist your weight loss consult your doctor before lowering your carb
>> >>consumption.
>> >>
>> >>exercise is very important and walking 2-3 miles a day will definately
>> >>help to get your horomones on track.
>> >>
>> >--
>> >Hope this helps,
>> >
>> >Belle
>> >
>>
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