Re: OB didelphyic/bicornuate and breech --> type of incision?
From: Dr Eberhard W Lisse (el@lisse.na)
Wed Jul 30 00:40:46 2008
Werner,
seems that illiteracy runs in families...
el
On 30 Jul 2008, at 01:49 , verner nellsch wrote:
> boy, oh, boy. i was welcomed to this list with the warning that you
> needed a thick skin. it might have even been you who wrote that.
> seems like you can dish it out, steve, but can't take it. you and
> eberhard don't seem to contribute much to this list except sour
> criticism and insults. to accuse me of ad hominem arguments is the
> pot calling the kettle black.
>
> tell you what, i'll lay off you and eberhard and stick to the
> medicine if you lay off me, and actually contribute some actual
> expertise and knowledge. i'm a counter-puncher, and you guys are all
> too easy to paste some on.
>
> i have a reason for not using capitals, and wearing nikes. if we get
> along for awhile, maybe i will share it with you.
>
> i await your next missive. vnellsch
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Stephen" <Stephen.Raymond@dhhs.tas.gov.au
> >
> To: "Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L" <ob-gyn-l@mail.obgyn.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:27 PM
> Subject: RE: OB didelphyic/bicornuate and breech --> type of incision?
>
>> It seemed that this thread was degenerating so far into an "ad
>> hominem"
>> argument that no further replies would be warranted, but I can't
>> ignore
>> your stated wish that you "...would place my money on the
>> practitioner
>> who openly looks at all the different techniques, and uses the
>> best..."
>> because this is exactly what I am advocating. The best incision in
>> obstetrics is the transverse and there are almost no indications
>> for the
>> midline. There, I said it again. If you are thinking of doing a
>> midline I maintain you should be asking yourself why. I may be a
>> nincompoop, but I believe it serves the patient best.
>>
>> As to the difference between "evisceration and "dehiscence" you can't
>> have the former without the latter, and it is accepted jargon for
>> "exenteration". When you have seen enough dehiscences you will know
>> that evisceration is a common complication that would be disastrous
>> to
>> miss.
>>
>> Since you feel it reasonable to make personal attacks during a
>> medical
>> discussion; Nike wearers are mindless followers of the herd who lack
>> perception of independent thinking, and are certainly not the type
>> who,
>> to use your own words, "... openly looks at all the different
>> techniques, and uses the best, not just what he believes is advocated
>> elsewhere." Rather they are guilty of, again to use your own words,
>> "staying on what they consider the right side of any fashion."
>>
>> Failing to use any capitals in written communication is another
>> example
>> of this. Since when did professionals with a university education
>> feel
>> it satisfactory to adopt the slum habits of the ill-educated cell
>> phone
>> generation?
>>
>> Steve Raymond
>> Ph (03)62227898
>> Cell 0438372395
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ob-gyn-l@obgyn.net [mailto:ob-gyn-l@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of
>> verner
>> nellsch
>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 8:18 AM
>> To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L
>> Subject: Re: OB didelphyic/bicornuate and breech --> type of
>> incision?
>>
>> eberhard,
>>
>> i have met my share of department heads who are nincompoops, and
>> experienced
>> at the politics of department management, and staying on what they
>> consider
>> the right side of any fashion in medicine. as for what he writes
>> being
>> true,
>> time will tell. i would place my money on the practitioner who openly
>> looks
>> at all the different techniques, and uses the best, not just what he
>> believes is advocated elsewhere. as for what he writes being
>> gospel, do
>> you
>> really want to get into comparing what he writes and the veracity of
>> scripture?
>>
>> as for nonsense, do you know the difference between a dehiscence and
>> evisceration? one means a disrupted suture line, the other removal of
>> the
>> intestines. before lecturing someone as being informed or not,
>> eberhard,
>> get
>> your terms straight. you appear to have delusions of adequacy. people
>> let
>> you get by with a lot because you are somewhat amusing, but a fair
>> amount of
>> what you spout off is nothing but narrow minded drivel. you at
>> times are
>>
>> insulting, and the internet informs me, accused of slander as well. i
>> appreciate your directness in confronting possible poseurs on the
>> site,
>> and
>> i am sure there is much that you could teach all of us, minus the
>> attitude.
>>
>> am i experienced? i delivered my first baby in 1975. i have been in
>> medicine
>> constantly ever since. i wear nikes. and i have telinde 9th edition.
>> vnellsch
>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr Eberhard W Lisse"
>> <el@lisse.na>
>> To: "Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L" <ob-gyn-l@mail.obgyn.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 12:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: OB didelphyic/bicornuate and breech --> type of
>> incision?
>>
>>> Verner,
>>>
>>> he was the head of a huge department in South Africa and now is the
>>> head of a teaching institution in Australia. He's one of two
>> contributors
>>> to the list I have actually met. He has the actual experience and
>>> what
>> he
>>> writes is true, aka gospel.
>>>
>>> And what you are writing below is nonsense. A Senior Registrar, aka
>>> Chief Resident (but with a Specialist qualification) gets to do
>>> things
>>
>>> like
>>> fixing eviscerated bowel. He did didn't write his Consultant
>> (Attending)
>>> did the vertical against Steve's advice. I have fixed my fair
>>> share of
>>> evisceration (usually a combination of vertical incision and Cuban
>> Quack)
>>> as well. Being a sub-specialist (Onc) doesn't meant your choice of
>>> incision is right, by default.
>>>
>>> You on the other hand come over as someone less than informed and/or
>>> experienced. Do you run around in boots?
>>>
>>> greetings, el
>>>
>>> On 28 Jul 2008, at 23:25 , verner nellsch wrote:
>>>
>>>> eberhard,
>>>>
>>>> steve comes across as a humorless, tedious pedant. he uses
>> statistics
>>>> like a drunk uses lamp posts, for support, not illumination. he
>>>> insinuates that he was smarter and more capable than his
>>>> attendings
>> as a
>>>> "senior registrar", and more discerning than his consultant gyn
>>>> oncologist. i have not once seen him allow for any other way than
>> his
>>>> preferred way as being acceptable. i have never once seen him
>>>> offer
>>>> comfort for someone on the list when they present with problems,
>> only
>>>> criticism, and barbed at that. he is dull, and makes others dull
>>>> for
>>
>>>> fear of getting one of his responses.
>>>>
>>>> so, to use your phrase, i could give a toss as to the person with
>> whom i
>>>> am dealing. it does not matter who the bag of hot air is, they
>>>> need
>>>> deflating.
>>>>
>>>> but, perhaps i have misjudged the individual. please enlighten me
>>>> as
>> to
>>>> why i should hold him in greater esteem, greater than he seems to
>> hold
>>>> anyone else. vnellsch
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr Eberhard W Lisse"
>> <el@lisse.na>
>>>> To: "Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L" <ob-gyn-
>>>> l@mail.obgyn.net>
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:02 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: OB didelphyic/bicornuate and breech --> type of
>> incision?
>>>>
>>>>> Verner,
>>>>>
>>>>> It's fairly obvious that you haven't got a clue who you are
>>>>> dealing
>>>>> with...
>>>>>
>>>>> el
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28 Jul 2008, at 12:10 , verner nellsch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> you spent" much of your time" fixing burst abdomens. i've told
>>>>>> you
>> a
>>>>>> million times to never exaggerate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i use a mix of transverse and midline incisions, with good
>> success. i
>>>>>> think that a flexible approach to the abdomen is the best.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you do not. oh,well. vnellsch
>>>>
>>>
>>
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