OB-GYN-L Messages for January, 2008: Re: Caffeine-miscarriage link study

Re: Caffeine-miscarriage link study

From: FRANCES WREN

fwren@shaw.ca

Sun Jan 27 21:48:22 2008

makes one wonder about all this nonsense, should we be getting women to sign a thing at beginning of pregnancy...or even pre-conceptually acknowledgeing the "dangers" of being pregnant.... plus acknowledging "the de-rigeur"..of life with young children...teenage children....adult children who may never want to leave the nest...adult children who return home...etc etc... and shoule we be documenting in their charts that we warned them of all of these potentiall..possible...paranoia causing "might happen" didasters... and have them sign the "i've been warned "clause. NUTTIER AND NUTTIER frances wren MD FRCS..(and inadequate warner)

>----- Original Message -----
From: Joe <forcep@intercom.net> Date: Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:43 am Subject: Re: Caffeine-miscarriage link study To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@mail.obgyn.net>

> And condoms? They do ruptured with unforeseen consequnces. Oh, I > forgot > about informed consent with each use. Joe C > > art fougner, md wrote: > > > The makers of colas, Red Bull, Excedrin etc are in trouble. > > > > Art > > > > At Sun, 27 Jan 2008, Gordon Goldman wrote: > > > >>Not to mention the second-hand caffeine that pollutes the > environment>>as the molecules evaporate into the air from those > steaming cups of > >>coffee. > >>This will generate 'no caffeine' areas of restaurants and eventually > >>ban the 'public use' of it in all buildings, etc. ad nauseam. > >> > >>Gordon > >> > >>On Jan 27, 2008, at 5:10 AM, art fougner, md wrote: > >> > >>>Caffeine warning labels on coffee cups, ala beer bottles/cans? > >>> > >>>Art > >>> > >>>At Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Gordon Goldman wrote: > >>> > >>>>David, > >>>> > >>>>I agree with you, except I think this will serve another purpose; > >>>>fodder for the litigious at heart. > >>>> > >>>>The coffee vendors (Seattle, Starbuck's and the like) will > be the > >>>>target of litigation for not having adequately warned their female > >>>>clientele of the 'deadly' consequences of caffeine ingestion. > >>>> > >>>>And of course, the physicians will be targeted also, unless > it is > >>>>documented in the record that you specifically warned > against it, > >>>>despite the paucity of hard fact. In Missouri, we have > to have the > >>>>patient sign a statement at the onset of prenatal care, > warning them > >>>>of alcohol, tobacco and drug use. Caffeine is next. > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>Gordon M. Goldman, M.D., FACOG > >>>>Private Practice, St. Louis, Mo. > >>>> > >>>>On Jan 26, 2008, at 4:33 PM, David Priver wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>Study linking caffeine, miscarriages flawed > >>>>> > >>>>>Regarding “Study reports link between caffeine use, miscarriages” > >>>>>(News, > >>>>>Jan. 21): > >>>>> > >>>>>In my view, as an OB/GYN, this is a dreadfully flawed study that > >>>>>will > >>>>>serve no purpose other to further frighten pregnant women > about the > >>>>>growing volume of supposedly dangerous substances that they must > >>>>>avoid. > >>>>> > >>>>>First of all, it is hopelessly unreliable to question > women, often > >>>>>months following a miscarriage, about what they did or did not > >>>>>consume > >>>>>while pregnant. Secondly, women who have the most “morning > >>>>>sickness” > >>>>>and, therefore, are the least likely to be consuming coffee (or > >>>>>nearly > >>>>>anything else), almost never miscarry, presumably as a > result of a > >>>>>very > >>>>>high hormone level. This reflects an association, but > clearly not a > >>>>>cause and effect relationship. Finally, it is well- > established that > >>>>>miscarriage is, with very few exceptions, caused by pregnancies > >>>>>associated with chromosomal abnormalities, something that cannot > >>>>>possibly be affected by he consumption of caffeine. > >>>>> > >>>>>As the March of Dimes spokeswoman stated while explaining > why that > >>>>>organization will now proceed to jump on this fear-inducing > >>>>>bandwagon, > >>>>>“Women do need good guidance.” Indeed they do, but this > study did > >>>>>not > >>>>>provide it. > >>>>> > >>>>>DAVID PRIVER > >>>>>San Diego > >>>>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>>art fougner, md > >>>"May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton > > > > > > -- > > art fougner, md > > "May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton > > > > > > >

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<DIV>makes one wonder about all this nonsense,</DIV> <DIV>should we be getting women to sign a thing at beginning of pregnancy...or even pre-conceptually acknowledgeing the "dangers" of being pregnant....</DIV> <DIV>plus acknowledging "the de-rigeur"..of life with young children...teenage children....adult children who may never want to leave the nest...adult children who return home...etc etc...</DIV> <DIV>and shoule we be documenting in their charts that we warned them of all of these potentiall..possible...paranoia causing "might happen" didasters...</DIV> <DIV>and have them sign the "i've been warned "clause.</DIV> <DIV>NUTTIER AND NUTTIER</DIV> <DIV>frances wren MD FRCS..(and inadequate warner) >----- Original Message ----- From: Joe <forcep@intercom.net> Date: Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:43 am Subject: Re: Caffeine-miscarriage link study To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@mail.obgyn.net> > And condoms? They do ruptured with unforeseen consequnces. Oh, I > forgot > about informed consent with each use. Joe C > > art fougner, md wrote: > > > The makers of colas, Red Bull, Excedrin etc are in trouble. > > > > Art > > > > At Sun, 27 Jan 2008, Gordon Goldman wrote: > > > >>Not to mention the second-hand caffeine that pollutes the > environment>>as the molecules evaporate into the air from those > steaming cups of > >>coffee. > >>This will generate 'no caffeine' areas of restaurants and eventually > >>ban the 'public use' of it in all buildings, etc. ad nauseam. > >> > >>Gordon > >> > >>On Ja
n 27, 2008, at 5:10 AM, art fougner, md wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Caffeine warning labels on coffee cups, ala beer bottles/cans? > >>> > >>>Art > >>> > >>>At Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Gordon Goldman wrote: > >>> > >>>>David, > >>>> > >>>>I agree with you, except I think this will serve another purpose; > >>>>fodder for the litigious at heart. > >>>> > >>>>The coffee vendors (Seattle, Starbuck's and the like) will > be the > >>>>target of litigation for not having adequately warned their female > >>>>clientele of the 'deadly' consequences of caffeine ingestion. > >>>> > >>>>And of course, the physic ians will be targeted also, unless > it is > >>>>documented in the record that you specifically warned > against it, > >>>>despite the paucity of hard fact.  In Missouri, we have > to have the > >>>>patient sign a statement at the onset of prenatal care, > warning them > >>>>of alcohol, tobacco and drug use.  Caffeine is next. > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>Gordon M. Goldman, M.D., FACOG > >>>>Private Practice, St. Louis, Mo. > >>>> > >>>>On Jan 26, 2008, at 4:33 PM, David Priver wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Study linking caffeine, miscarriages flawed > >>>>> > >>>&# 038;gt;>Regarding “Study reports link between caffeine use, miscarriages” > >>>>>(News, > >>>>>Jan.  21): > >>>>> > >>>>>In my view, as an OB/GYN, this is a dreadfully flawed study that > >>>>>will > >>>>>serve no purpose other to further frighten pregnant women > about the > >>>>>growing volume of supposedly dangerous substances that they must > >>>>>avoid. > >>>>> > >>>>>First of all, it is hopelessly unreliable to question > women, often > >>>>>months following a miscarriage, about what they did or did not > >>>>>consume > >>>>>while pregnant.  Secondly, women who have the most “morning > > >>>>sickness” > >>>>>and, therefore, are the least likely to be consuming coffee (or > >>>>>nearly > >>>>>anything else), almost never miscarry, presumably as a > result of a > >>>>>very > >>>>>high hormone level.  This reflects an association, but > clearly not a > >>>>>cause and effect relationship.  Finally, it is well- > established that > >>>>>miscarriage is, with very few exceptions, caused by pregnancies > >>>>>associated with chromosomal abnormalities, something that cannot > >>>>>possibly be affected by he consumption of caffeine. > >>>>> > >>>>>As the March of Dimes spokeswoman stated while explaining > why that > >>>>>organization wil l now proceed to jump on this fear-inducing > >>>>>bandwagon, > >>>>>“Women do need good guidance.” Indeed they do, but this > study did > >>>>>not > >>>>>provide it. > >>>>> > >>>>>DAVID PRIVER > >>>>>San Diego > >>>>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>>art fougner, md > >>>"May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton > > > > > > -- > > art fougner, md > > "May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton > > > > > > > </DIV>

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