Re: Informed consent --> legal smeagol
From: Dr Eberhard W Lisse (el@lisse.NA)
Tue Jun 6 11:16:34 2006
Joe,
it is so much fun goading Chippa :-)-O
But, I do not agree with your view that the US system is the best or
even only good. It is really mediocre at best, and the meddling of
church and state doesn't help it much eather.
I know a bit about that particular case, but the point is, she poured it
over herself, without assistance by McDonalds. Cause, Effect,
Escalation. Deep Pockets. And who is pointing a gun to your head forcing
you to supersize? Nevermind that Wendy's tastes much better.
el
doctorjoe@aol.com wrote:
> Nice comment, el, but the MacDonald's coffee incident has a lot more
> beneath the surface than most people understand (corporate intrigue,
> lying, purposeful action, etc.). So that's NOT a good example for the
> "real legal system" argument. The more you know about it, the more you
> think Ronald MacDonald should get life (or at least as much time as the
> Enron guys).
>
> Suffice it to say that the world's legal systems closely watch the U.S.
> legal system, a work in progress (but progress is our most important
> product, I've heard before) but still a model for everyone. Remember
> that the U.S. legal "system" is the product of Europe, America (e.g.
> allegedly the Iroquis Indian model, in some instances) and miscellaneous
> other concepts put together as an as-yet-unequaled system of justice.
>
> Joe P.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr Eberhard Lisse <el@lisse.NA>
> To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@dns.obgyn.net>
> Sent: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:14:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: Informed consent
>
> Well, in real countries, with real legal systems, a cup of coffee is
> anticipated to be hot, and spilling it onto one's lap while driving
> ones own car oneself, doesn't expose the maker of the coffee to
> liability for the burn wounds.
>
> Or for that matter, a pregnancy almost always ends in a delivery, and in
> most countries a midwife has in fact to be present at the delivery (by
> law). But even if not mandated by statute, a women *in* *labour* coming
> to the maternity ward for the delivery implicitly gives consent for the
> delivery.
>
> el
>
> on 6/6/06 2:57 PM DoctorJoe@aol.com <mailto:DoctorJoe%40aol.com> said the following:
>>
>> In a message dated 6/5/06 5:36:05 PM, Babycatchers@aol.com <mailto:Babycatchers%40aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> Ok- our facility has an implied consent policy when the patient comes
>>> in labor and is going to be delivered. They do not require a consent
>>> for vaginal delivery, but they do consents for anything outside the
>>> norm. Epidurals, C/S. BTL.
>>> Should I be telling them to get consent for NSVD? Sometimes risk
>>> management here is way behind the curve.
>>>
>>
>> Well, think like a lawyer.
>>
>> What's the implied consent FOR? To show up at your institution and use
>> your facilities and drop the baby on my own? Or actually for someone to
>> lay hands on (or in?) me and help me deliver my baby? [Remember that
>> battery is an unconsented TOUCHING, not just sitting around and watching
>> someone do their own thing.]
>>
>> When someone shows up on the hospital's doorstep, they implicitely want
>> to come in the door. However, they do NOT implicitely give consent for a
>> variety of (mostly unknown) humans to touch them. So a specific consent
>> EVEN for NSVD would seem to be prudent.
>>
>> Joe P.
>>
>
> --
> Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse \ / Obstetrician & Gynaecologist (Saar)
> el@lisse.NA <mailto:el%40lisse.NA> el108-ARIN / * | Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
> PO Box 8421 \ / Please send DNS/NA-NiC related e-mail
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