Re: The Enemy of Women -Thought-provoking(Long)
From: art fougner, md (evsono@pipeline.com)
Tue May 4 07:17:58 2004
it's truly curious - in the US pro-choice refers to abortion rights.
there are places in the world where pro-choice refers to the right to
choose a spouse, an education, or even a wardrobe for daily life.
as far as consistency, John Paul II would agree - a pro-life stance
should be consistent, requiring a stance against euthanasia and the
death penalty.
At Mon, 3 May 2004, Charlie Chambers wrote:
>
>Joanne,
>
>I really like the logic in your last paragraph. I think the argument
>needs to have a little more linear logic. If you are pro-life then
>shouldn't that apply across the board regardless of situation? If you
>are pro-life then you should continue to be pro-life after the birth of
>the child including the health and welfare of that child. I have always
>supported other's opinions to disagree but we need some consistent
>logic to these arguments.
>
>On May 3, 2004, at 3:20 PM, Joanne Bulley, MD wrote:
>
>> I really agree with you, David. I am not a single issue voter - but I
>> have not found an Anti-choice politician who was so great on everything
>> else that I could consider voting for him or her.
>>
>> I have generally stayed away from the pro-choic or anti-choice issue on
>> this list - but after the post I decided to speak up.
>>
>> Before Roe v Wade the estimate was theat every woman had either a
>> mother, aunt or daughter who had had an illegal abortion. (I never
>> knew
>> that my mother had had a kitchen-table termination in the 1950's until
>> after I was in my ObGyn residencies)
>>
>> Currently the statistic / estimate is that before menopause 46% of
>> women
>> have had at least one termination. The majority of these are at either
>> extreme of reproduction - before age 25 and peri-menopausal.
>>
>> My first goal is toward repsonsible sexuality - and I am adamant about
>> this in my practice. Don't have sex until and unless you either want
>> to
>> conceive or you are protected from pregnancy (not to mention STIs).
>> But
>> .. reality is the above - so unless you want to go back to coat
>> hangers and sepsis - if it is made criminal we will see things revert
>> to
>> those archaic methods and complications.
>>
>> So to those who belive it is a sin - don't have unprotected sex - don't
>> have an abortion - don't do abortions - but don't make them illegal.
>> There is not a consensus among ethicists and all religions that it is a
>> sin.
>>
>> To the Anti-choicers: are you 100% against all wars and use of the
>> death
>> penalty? If not - then you are not pro-life, you just pick and choose
>> when to apply your ethics.
>>
>> Joanne
>>
>> At Mon, 3 May 2004, David Priver, MD wrote:
>>>
>>> Robert,
>>> I have to disagree with you. Although Islamic fundamentalism is
>>> indeed
>>> a threat to women (and men for that matter), that in no way lessens
>>> the
>>> threat posed by the current republican administration as regards
>>> reproductive choice. No one should know better than an OB/GYN what
>>> the
>>> ramifications of outlawing abortions would be. Do we really want to
>>> go
>>> back to coat-hangers and kitchen tables? Well, that's exactly what the
>>> Bush position would do. Reversal of Roe v. Wade has been a major
>>> republican position since the Reagan years. If that weren't enough,
>>> their schizoid position on fetal stem cells will strangle research
>>> which
>>> would otherwise hasten cures for such things as spinal cord injuries
>>> and
>>> diabetes. And all this from a party that never stops pounding its
>>> chest
>>> about the need for smaller government.
>>> By the way, the elimination of the Taliban in Afghanistan has done
>>> almost nothing to free woemn from oppression. It's still an extremist
>>> Islamic state where women belong to men and have few personal
>>> freedoms.
>>> David
>>> At Mon, 3 May 2004, RModugno@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The enemy of women
>>>>
>>>> http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | There were two must-read stories on
>>>> Page 1 f
>>>> the April 26 New York Times. One, headlined "Abortion-rights
>>>> marchers vow t
>>>> fight another Bush term," reported on the massive pro-choice rally
>>>> that had
>>>> flooded the nation's capital one day earlier. The other, "Militants
>>>> in Euro e
>>>> openly call for jihad and the rule of Islam," described the rise of
>>>> Muslim
>>>> supremacists who make no secret of their goal: the conversion of
>>>> Europe to slam,
>>>> by force if necessary.
>>>>
>> --
>> Joanne Bulley, MD
>> Keene, NH, USA
>>
>> -----
>> Mission Accomplished? 5/1/03: major combat operations are over in
>> Iraq. We won.
>> Mission Unaccomplished. 5/1/04: 131 US troops killed in April 2004
>> alone.
>> 734 total, 596 since "we won".
>> "There are no longer torture chambers or rape rooms or mass graves in
>> Iraq."
>> - GW Bush, 4/30/04
>> "U.S. Army report that Iraqi detainees were subjected to "sadistic,
>> blatant and
>> wanton criminal abuses" at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad."
>> - CBS News 4/30/04.
>> Torture including rape, sodomization, electrocution, humiliation, dog
>> attacks.
>> - all photographed by smiling US soldiers.
>>
>> My duty is to speak. I have no wish to be an accomplice.
>>
>************************************************************************
>****
>
>--
>************************************************************************
>Charlie Chambers
>Hood River, OR USA
>cchamber@alumni.rice.edu
>
>"...not because I regard fishing as being so terribly
>important but because I suspect that so many of the other
>concerns of men are equally unimportant-and not nearly
>so much fun."
> John Voelker
>************************************************************************
>*****
>************************************************************************
>
--
art fougner, md
ich bin ein New Yorker
