Re: TV scan male or female sonographer
From: art fougner, md (evsono@pipeline.com)
Fri Jan 27 10:01:44 2006
I perform thousands of TV scans annually ... have a chaperone in the
room for everyone. Occasionally, I have run into a Muslim who declined
on religious grounds.
Art
At Fri, 27 Jan 2006, DuBose, Terry wrote:
>
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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>Hi, I'm a radiation technology student from Singapore.
>I'd like to seek the experts' views on male sonographers practising
>sonography - whether it should be practised in conservative Asian
>societies. Some examinations are particularly sensitive to the Asian
>patients, such as TV scans. Would it affect the emotional health of the
>patient, or level of cooperation during the scan? What is the common
>Western opinion on this issue?
>Thank you very much
>for your help.
>
>Sharon S.
>
>Sharon, you ask a difficult question for there is no consensus in the
>USA about "views on male sonographers practicing sonography". This was
>recently discussed on the SDMS Forums with little agreement. I have
>pasted some of the comments at the bottom... you might want to join the
>SDMS so you can access the large number of Forums.
>
>In the sonographic labs I worked in over the last 30 years, I have
>performed both endovaginal and breast sonography, with a chaperone. In
>Austin, Texas it seemed to be less of an issue than it is in the more
>conservative Arkansas. However, I always find it interesting that no
>one ever seems to take issue with the fact that the local Veteran's
>Administration Hospital only employees female sonographers in the
>diagnostic area, and they do all the scrotal exams without chaperones.
>
>It always seemed odd that there has been no or very little issue with
>male gynecologist/obstetricians, yet there may be a ferurer over a male
>sonographer doing these exams. You can find a number of messages
>discussing these issues on the Ultrsound@OBGYN.net forums. Go to this
>link:
>
>http://forums.obgyn.net/ultrasound/
>
>Scroll toward the bottom of the page and look for the search area (not
>the GOOGLE web search):
>
>"use when must restrict search to only the ultrasound forum..."
>
>Type in "chaperone" and you will get many messages... here is one
>exchange. Hope this helps. Terry
>
>The position mentioned was not for a nurse, but for a sonographer
>(although he referred to himself as an ultrasound technologist even
>though he says he hold the RDMS credential). My OB ultrasound lab claims
>to hire females only as a BFOQ which I believe stands for bona fide
>occupational qualification. I know several male sonographers who are
>infinitely more qualified as ob/gyn sonographers than some females. I
>really don't know the legal ramifications of this issue but in a small
>practice I'm sure that the discrimination could easily be dismissed by
>claiming some other reason for not hiring a male candidate. Pretty
>blatant comment on the part of the receptionist in my opinion. Patty
>
>>I am a male ob/gyn doctor
><http://forums.obgyn.net/ultrasound/ULTRASOUND.9906/0121.html##> . I
>have been in practice 51 years. My nurse has always been female. I
>really do not think a male nurse in an ob/gyn practice would work out,
>but of course I am an old timer.
>>
>>If a male nurse applied for the job as my nurse, as soon as I received
>the application I would consult with the Clinic attorney, telling the
>attorney (presently male, but it has varied over the years) that I think
>a male nurse would probably be the end of my practice. Also a male nurse
>probably would not be considered an adequate chaperone.
>>
>>If the attorney said it is against the law to turn the applicant down
>because he is a male, and if there were no other applicants, I think I
>would have to try the male nurse. I suppose a male nurse with an
>incredibly good personality could do ok in an ob/gyn practice, with
>support from the doctor and the practice.
>>
>>If I did end up turning down the male applicant, I would have the
>attorney compose the letter or be present during the interview, or
>whatever was appropriate.
>>
>>I am not an attorney and cannot of course give you legal advice.
>>
>Terry J. DuBose, M.S., RDMS, FSDMS, FAIUM
>
>Associate Professor & Director
>Diagnostic Medical Sonography Program
>University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, CHRP
>4301 West Markham St. Mail Slot #563
>Little Rock, Arkansas, 72205 USA
>501-686-6510
>DuBoseTerryJ@UAMS.edu
>http://www.uams.edu/chrp/sonography/
>http://www.obgyn.net/us/panel/panel.htm
>http://www.io.com/~dubose/
>---------------------------------------------------------------
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>sono2462
>03>
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>USA
>8 Posts
>
> Posted - 03/27/2004 : 14:11:03
>03>
> <JavaScript:openWindow('pop_mail.asp?id`3')>
>>1062&FORUM_ID0&CAT_ID=5&Forum_TitleÊreer%2FJob+Issues+%28includi g+U
>P%29&Topic_Title=chaperone+for+ev+and+scrotum+patients>
>
>________________________________
>
>________________________________
>I would like to know how everyone is handling ev and scrotum scanning of
>
>--
>________________________________
>opposite sex patients. I noticed that the society stance for these
>________________________________
>procedures has changed in that it used to state that it was strongly
>advised and now states that it is acceptable to have a chaperone of the
>same sex. Do you use consent forms or not. I personally feel that it
>could be a real issue but am finding more and more places where
>chaperones are not used. Other places say that a male needs a chaperone
>for TV exams but that a female does not need a chaperone for scrotum
>scans. I wonder why the society changed there stand on this issue.
>
>Shmabs
>41>
>
>1 Posts
>
>Posted - 03/29/2004 : 22:42:25
>41>
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>%28including+UP%29&Topic_Title=chaperone+for+ev+and+scrotum+patients&M=>
>
>________________________________
>
>________________________________
>I am currently an sonography student in Omaha, NE and have rotated
>________________________________
>through many clinical sites. I have not been to a site yet where a
>________________________________
>chaperone has been needed/required for any type of exam.
>At the beginning of my schooling we were told to have a chaperone in the
>exam room with us while performing transvaginal sonographys, and we are
>all females. I have never had anyone in the room with me while doing a
>transvaginal or scrotum exam, nor have any of the other sonographers who
>are teaching me at my clinical sites. I think most of the places I've
>been to are just too busy to take the time to be chaperones for these
>types of exams. But I do believe it is a good idea for safety and legal
>issues.
>I have heard of cases where techs have been occused of rape after
>performing a transvaginal exam, so the idea of chaperones might need to
>be considered a little more. The idea of consent forms is a great one!
>Explaining to the patient the procedure of the exam and who will be
>performing the exam before it is done is a great way to set the
>sonographer at ease after the patient signs it. Plus it gives the
>patient an idea of what the exam entails. I have begun many transvaginal
>exams where the patient has never had this particular exam before.
>Consent forms could set everyone and the environment at ease!
><http://www.sdms.org/members/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID62&FORUM_ID==
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>rothgeb
>66>
>
>USA
>116 Posts
>
>Posted - 03/30/2004 : 12:20:23
>66>
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><http://www.smahe.com>
>>2584&TOPIC_ID62&FORUM_ID0&CAT_ID=5&Forum_TitleÊreer%2FJob+I sues+
>%28including+UP%29&Topic_Title=chaperone+for+ev+and+scrotum+patients&M=>
>
>________________________________
>
>________________________________
>Be careful of using the phrase, "everyone would be at ease". In
>________________________________
>healthcare overall, there are more lawsuits with consent forms signed
>________________________________
>than there are without. Remember what a consent form does; it informs
>the patient of the risk involved of the procedure, it does not give the
>sonographer the right to mess up. Plus for a consent form to be
>effective you have to list the risk involved with the exam. What can
>possibly be listed as a risk for EV sonography? You sure can't put down
>inappropriate behavior by the sonographer. I have never done an EV exam
>without a chaperone. Plus I document who my chaperone is on the hard
>copy. It's also advisable to have the chaperone sign a paper indicating
>that no inappropriate behavior was observed.
>
>The bottom line is, protect your patients rights and privacy and then
>you protect yourself. Do the simple things before starting the exam.
>Explain the exam to the patient, tell them why you need to do the exam,
>get a verbal permission, introduce the chaperone to the patient as the
>chaperone and keep the patient covered up during the exam. If you are a
>male, step out of the room while the patient inserts the transducer. If
>you are a female sonographer, I think you definitely need a chaperone if
>you are inserting the transducer.
>
>One final comment, have a policy listing these steps. In the event of a
>lawsuit, this will be the first thing the opposing lawyer will want.
>
>In saying all of this I still believe the risk of something happening is
>extremely low and even lower if you follow some well thought out
>guidelines.
>
>Joe
>
>Edited by - rothgeb on 03/30/2004 12:23:07
><http://www.sdms.org/members/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID62&FORUM_ID==
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>rothgeb
>66>
>
>USA
>116 Posts
>
>Posted - 03/31/2004 : 08:45:02
>66>
> <JavaScript:openWindow('pop_mail.asp?idF6')>
><http://www.smahe.com>
>>2591&TOPIC_ID62&FORUM_ID0&CAT_ID=5&Forum_TitleÊreer%2FJob+I sues+
>%28including+UP%29&Topic_Title=chaperone+for+ev+and+scrotum+patients&M=>
>
>________________________________
>
>________________________________
>Rich,
>________________________________
>
>________________________________
>Maybe it is bizarre. But I try to do everything to make the patient feel
>comfortable. Its simply respecting the patients privacy. Some women are
>extremely modest and I don't see the harm in respecting that. Maybe it
>wouldn't matter to 8 of 10 women but I think its respectful for the 2
>who may appreciate and respect that. Stepping out of the room doesn't
>make anyone feel uncomfortable but staying could. The problem is we
>don't know who those few are.
>
>Joe
>
>Joe
>
>Edited by - rothgeb on 03/31/2004 08:53:27
><http://www.sdms.org/members/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID62&FORUM_ID==
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>CLARS
>63>
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>USA
>3 Posts
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>Posted - 04/23/2004 : 05:27:36
>63>
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>
>________________________________
>
>________________________________
>I am new on this forum and found this an interesting subject. At the
>________________________________
>facility I work at we do not use chaperones most of the time. There are
>________________________________
>5 female techs (part time, casual and 2 full time) and one male tech.
>Our male tech used to use a chaperone all the time but it was hard to
>always find someone that could help. He will ask the patient if she
>would like another person in the room, and usually the person is
>comfortable not having a chaperone. Our scheduled patients receive a
>prep sheet when the appointment is made that explains the sonography
>procedure, so most of the patients know what is going to happen. But we
>also verbally explain the procedure before we start. I also ask the
>patient if she wants to insert the probe or have me do it. Many patients
>ask me to insert the probe. Except in emergency room situations on call,
>some patients that have received a prep sheet in advance have requested
>a female tech and we do accomadate whenever possible. If a female tech
>is not available, the patient has the choice to reschedule, have a
>chaperone or choose to go ahead without a chaperone.
>As far as scrotal sonographys, we have never used chaperones either.
>Sometimes on younger patients a parent will come in. Again, on occasion
>a patient has asked if there is a male tech available, we accomadate
>whenever possible.
>We are professionals and in my opinion if you treat the patient with
>respect, explain the procedure, talk to the patient while scanning (
>this puts many patients at ease) things should go well.
>
><http://www.sdms.org/members/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID62&FORUM_ID==
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>wgreenhut
>33>
>
>USA
>59 Posts
>
>Posted - 04/28/2004 : 18:44:55
>33>
> <JavaScript:openWindow('pop_mail.asp?id3')>
><http://www.hitachimed.com>
>>2643&TOPIC_ID62&FORUM_ID0&CAT_ID=5&Forum_TitleÊreer%2FJob+I sues+
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>
>________________________________
>
>________________________________
>Have you never encountered a patient who behaved inappropriately? I
>________________________________
>have, many times. As a male sonographer I reacted incredulously to
>________________________________
>anyone who told me I didn't need a chaperone for a TV exam (I am now an
>applications specialist who often gets excluded from the room by patient
>choice). I could tell you terrible stories of a staff member being led
>out of the department in handcuffs, deservedly so...and so on and so on.
>
>I explained the procedure and gave my patients the choice of inserting
>the probe while they were covered or having me do it. I was very
>conscious and solicitous of their comfort, their privacy and their
>rights. And I always had a female chaperone, a staff member, in the
>room.
>
><http://www.sdms.org/members/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID62&FORUM_ID==
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>________________________________
>
>________________________________
>From: Terry DuBose [mailto:terrydubose@sbcglobal.net]
>________________________________
>Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 7:43 AM
>________________________________
>To: DuBose, Terry
>Subject: Fwd: TV scan male or female sonographer
>
>Lea Harth <lea@medispecialty.com> wrote:
>
>From: "Lea Harth" <lea@medispecialty.com>
>To: "'sharon s'" <benxiaohai99@yahoo.com>,
>"'Terry DuBose'" <terrydubose@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: TV scan male or female sonographer
>Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:39:12 -0800
>
>Sharon,
>
>I am forwarding your excellent question to the chairman of our
>sonography
>editorial advisory board, Terry DuBose.
>
>Lea
>
>Lea Harth
>Operations Manager
>OBGYN.net
>reply to: Lea@obgyn.net
>
>http://www.medispecialty.com
>http://www.obgyn.net
>http://www.endometriosiszone.org
>http://www.oblink.com
>http://www.firstvisit.org
>http://www.ivstunneller.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: sharon s [mailto:benxiaohai99@yahoo.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:20 AM
>To: editor@obgyn.net
>Subject: Fwd: question
>
>Hi, I'm a radiation technology student from Singapore.
>I'd like to seek the experts' views on male sonographers practising
>sonography - whether it should be practised in conservative Asian
>societies.
>Some examinations are particularly sensitive to the Asian patients, such
>as
>TV scans. Would it affect the emotional health of the patient, or level
>of
>cooperation during the scan? What is the common Western opinion on this
>issue?
>Thank you very much
>for your help.
>
>Sharon S.
>
>==========================
>=====================
>
>message.
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--
art fougner, md
"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early."
Lawrence Peter Berra
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