Re: Caffeine-miscarriage link study
From: art fougner, md (evsono@pipeline.com)
Mon Jan 28 06:59:46 2008
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Art
At Sun, 27 Jan 2008, FRANCES WREN wrote:
>
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>makes one wonder about all this nonsense,
>should we be getting women to sign a thing at beginning of pregnancy...or even pre-conceptually acknowledgeing the "dangers" of being pregnant....
>plus acknowledging "the de-rigeur"..of life with young children...teenage children....adult children who may never want to leave the nest...adult children who return home...etc etc...
>and shoule we be documenting in their charts that we warned them of all of these potentiall..possible...paranoia causing "might happen" didasters...
>and have them sign the "i've been warned "clause.
>NUTTIER AND NUTTIER
>frances wren MD FRCS..(and inadequate warner)
>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joe <forcep@intercom.net>
>Date: Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:43 am
>Subject: Re: Caffeine-miscarriage link study
>To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@mail.obgyn.net>
>
>> And condoms? They do ruptured with unforeseen consequnces. Oh, I
>> forgot
>> about informed consent with each use. Joe C
>>
>> art fougner, md wrote:
>>
>> > The makers of colas, Red Bull, Excedrin etc are in trouble.
>> >
>> > Art
>> >
>> > At Sun, 27 Jan 2008, Gordon Goldman wrote:
>> >
>> >>Not to mention the second-hand caffeine that pollutes the
>> environment>>as the molecules evaporate into the air from those
>> steaming cups of
>> >>coffee.
>> >>This will generate 'no caffeine' areas of restaurants and eventually
>> >>ban the 'public use' of it in all buildings, etc. ad nauseam.
>> >>
>> >>Gordon
>> >>
>> >>On Jan 27, 2008, at 5:10 AM, art fougner, md wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Caffeine warning labels on coffee cups, ala beer bottles/cans?
>> >>>
>> >>>Art
>> >>>
>> >>>At Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Gordon Goldman wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>David,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I agree with you, except I think this will serve another purpose;
>> >>>>fodder for the litigious at heart.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>The coffee vendors (Seattle, Starbuck's and the like) will
>> be the
>> >>>>target of litigation for not having adequately warned their female
>> >>>>clientele of the 'deadly' consequences of caffeine ingestion.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>And of course, the physicians will be targeted also, unless
>> it is
>> >>>>documented in the record that you specifically warned
>> against it,
>> >>>>despite the paucity of hard fact. In Missouri, we have
>> to have the
>> >>>>patient sign a statement at the onset of prenatal care,
>> warning them
>> >>>>of alcohol, tobacco and drug use. Caffeine is next.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>--
>> >>>>Gordon M. Goldman, M.D., FACOG
>> >>>>Private Practice, St. Louis, Mo.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>On Jan 26, 2008, at 4:33 PM, David Priver wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>Study linking caffeine, miscarriages flawed
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Regarding “Study reports link between caffeine use, miscarriages”
>> >>>>>(News,
>> >>>>>Jan. 21):
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>In my view, as an OB/GYN, this is a dreadfully flawed study that
>> >>>>>will
>> >>>>>serve no purpose other to further frighten pregnant women
>> about the
>> >>>>>growing volume of supposedly dangerous substances that they must
>> >>>>>avoid.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>First of all, it is hopelessly unreliable to question
>> women, often
>> >>>>>months following a miscarriage, about what they did or did not
>> >>>>>consume
>> >>>>>while pregnant. Secondly, women who have the most “morning
>> >>>>>sickness”
>> >>>>>and, therefore, are the least likely to be consuming coffee (or
>> >>>>>nearly
>> >>>>>anything else), almost never miscarry, presumably as a
>> result of a
>> >>>>>very
>> >>>>>high hormone level. This reflects an association, but
>> clearly not a
>> >>>>>cause and effect relationship. Finally, it is well-
>> established that
>> >>>>>miscarriage is, with very few exceptions, caused by pregnancies
>> >>>>>associated with chromosomal abnormalities, something that cannot
>> >>>>>possibly be affected by he consumption of caffeine.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>As the March of Dimes spokeswoman stated while explaining
>> why that
>> >>>>>organization will now proceed to jump on this fear-inducing
>> >>>>>bandwagon,
>> >>>>>“Women do need good guidance.” Indeed they do, but this
>> study did
>> >>>>>not
>> >>>>>provide it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>DAVID PRIVER
>> >>>>>San Diego
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>--
>> >>>art fougner, md
>> >>>"May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton
>> >
>> > --
>> > art fougner, md
>> > "May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton
>> >
>>
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><DIV>makes one wonder about all this nonsense,</DIV>
><DIV>should we be getting women to sign a thing at beginning of pregnancy...or even pre-conceptually acknowledgeing the "dangers" of being pregnant....</DIV>
><DIV>plus acknowledging "the de-rigeur"..of life with young children...teenage children....adult children who may never want to leave the nest...adult children who return home...etc etc...</DIV>
><DIV>and shoule we be documenting in their charts that we warned them of all of these potentiall..possible...paranoia causing "might happen" didasters...</DIV>
><DIV>and have them sign the "i've been warned "clause.</DIV>
><DIV>NUTTIER AND NUTTIER</DIV>
><DIV>frances wren MD FRCS..(and inadequate warner)<BR><BR>
>>>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Joe <forcep@intercom.net><BR>Date: Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:43 am<BR>Subject: Re: Caffeine-miscarriage link study<BR>To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@mail.obgyn.net><BR><BR>> And condoms? They do ruptured with unforeseen consequnces. Oh, I <BR>> forgot <BR>> about informed consent with each use. Joe C<BR>> <BR>> art fougner, md wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > The makers of colas, Red Bull, Excedrin etc are in trouble.<BR>> > <BR>> > Art<BR>> > <BR>> > At Sun, 27 Jan 2008, Gordon Goldman wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> >>Not to mention the second-hand caffeine that pollutes the <BR>> environment>>as the molecules evaporate into the air from those <BR>> steaming cups of<BR>> >>coffee.<BR>> >>This will generate 'no caffeine' areas of restaurants and eventually<BR>> >>ban the 'public use' of it in all buildings, etc. ad nauseam.<BR>> >><BR>> >>Gordon<BR>> >><BR>> >>On Ja
>n 27, 2008, at 5:10 AM, art fougner, md wrote:<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >>>Caffeine warning labels on coffee cups, ala beer bottles/cans?<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>Art<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>At Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Gordon Goldman wrote:<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>>David,<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>>I agree with you, except I think this will serve another purpose;<BR>> >>>>fodder for the litigious at heart.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>>The coffee vendors (Seattle, Starbuck's and the like) will <BR>> be the<BR>> >>>>target of litigation for not having adequately warned their female<BR>> >>>>clientele of the 'deadly' consequences of caffeine ingestion.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>>And of course, the physic
>ians will be targeted also, unless <BR>> it is<BR>> >>>>documented in the record that you specifically warned <BR>> against it,<BR>> >>>>despite the paucity of hard fact. In Missouri, we have <BR>> to have the<BR>> >>>>patient sign a statement at the onset of prenatal care, <BR>> warning them<BR>> >>>>of alcohol, tobacco and drug use. Caffeine is next.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>>--<BR>> >>>>Gordon M. Goldman, M.D., FACOG<BR>> >>>>Private Practice, St. Louis, Mo.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>>On Jan 26, 2008, at 4:33 PM, David Priver wrote:<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>>>Study linking caffeine, miscarriages flawed<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>&#
>038;gt;>Regarding “Study reports link between caffeine use, miscarriages”<BR>> >>>>>(News,<BR>> >>>>>Jan. 21):<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>>In my view, as an OB/GYN, this is a dreadfully flawed study that<BR>> >>>>>will<BR>> >>>>>serve no purpose other to further frighten pregnant women <BR>> about the<BR>> >>>>>growing volume of supposedly dangerous substances that they must<BR>> >>>>>avoid.<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>>First of all, it is hopelessly unreliable to question <BR>> women, often<BR>> >>>>>months following a miscarriage, about what they did or did not<BR>> >>>>>consume<BR>> >>>>>while pregnant. Secondly, women who have the most “morning<BR>> >
>>>>>sickness”<BR>> >>>>>and, therefore, are the least likely to be consuming coffee (or<BR>> >>>>>nearly<BR>> >>>>>anything else), almost never miscarry, presumably as a <BR>> result of a<BR>> >>>>>very<BR>> >>>>>high hormone level. This reflects an association, but <BR>> clearly not a<BR>> >>>>>cause and effect relationship. Finally, it is well-<BR>> established that<BR>> >>>>>miscarriage is, with very few exceptions, caused by pregnancies<BR>> >>>>>associated with chromosomal abnormalities, something that cannot<BR>> >>>>>possibly be affected by he consumption of caffeine.<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>>As the March of Dimes spokeswoman stated while explaining <BR>> why that<BR>> >>>>>organization wil
>l now proceed to jump on this fear-inducing<BR>> >>>>>bandwagon,<BR>> >>>>>“Women do need good guidance.” Indeed they do, but this <BR>> study did<BR>> >>>>>not<BR>> >>>>>provide it.<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>>>>DAVID PRIVER<BR>> >>>>>San Diego<BR>> >>>>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>>--<BR>> >>>art fougner, md<BR>> >>>"May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > --<BR>> > art fougner, md<BR>> > "May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> </DIV>
>
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--
art fougner, md
"May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton
