Re: OB: Stuart Campbell Op Ed
From: R. Daniel Braun (rd.braun@gmail.com)
Thu Oct 5 17:46:26 2006
OK, I will be judgemental. You are WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do no harm????? How much harm do you do to a young woman when you force her
to continue a pregnancy??
Gee, you know, you even do harm when you start an IV or draw blood (Pain).
Dan
On 10/5/06, Andrew Folley <agfolley@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think as physicians we have to be judgemental. Is abortion right or
> wrong? Are their absolute truths and values in the world or is everything
> "relative"?. Ie is abortion relatiev to thesociety one lives in or to the
> time in which one is living? As OB-Gyns we have a problem as most of us
> belong to ACOG and our organization has not come out against abortion. We
> have failed women and children and society by not saying no to the 1.6
> million murders commited each year by our fellow physicians.
> More of us need to be judgemental.
> "Do no harm"
> andrew
>
> >From: eramirezt@coqui.net (Efrain Ramirez)
> >Reply-To: ob-gyn-l@obgyn.net
> >To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@dns.obgyn.net>
> >Subject: Re: OB: Stuart Campbell Op Ed
> >Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 06:22:42 -0500
> >
> >Excellent editorial .. abortion issues are very personal - unique for
> >every individual and circumstances - with profound repercusions....both
> >to the patient and to society.. I as a physician can not be judgemental
> >but again .. just my opinion..
> >
> >Ef
> >
> > >Wed, 4 Oct 2006, art fougner, md wrote:
> > >
> > >X-Posted from the Ultrasound List ( Flame - Retardant Hazmat Suit in
> > >place )...
> > >
> > >Don't tear a smiling foetus from the womb
> > >
> > >By Professor Stuart Campbell (Filed: 04/10/2006)
> > >
> > >There is something deeply moving about the image of a baby cocooned
> > >inside the womb. When four-dimensional scans first became available
> > >three years ago, I sat with parents who trembled at the sight of their
> > >soon-to-be newborn. They told me they wanted to stroke its downy head.
> > >
> > >Advanced scanning means we have a window on the secret life of
> foetuses.
> > >At 11 weeks we can see them yawn, and even take steps. At 22 weeks,
> > >they begin to open their eyes.
> > >
> > >Between 20 and 24 weeks we watch as they seem to cry, smile and frown.
> > >Understandably, these incredible images have influenced the debate on
> > >abortion. I pioneered the 4-D scanning technique in the UK and it has
> > >certainly caused me to question my own opinions.
> > >
> > >I now believe the maximum age for abortion should be cut to 18 weeks so
> > >we do not abort foetuses who exhibit the signs of humanity these images
> > >portray. Of course, I have been accused of "sentimentality". Maybe
> > >this is right, but I defy anyone to see these pictures and not pause to
> > >wonder if they might be wrong.
> > >
> > >With the 1967 Abortion Act, terminations could be performed up to 28
> > >weeks for "social" abortions. In 1990, the law was changed to 24
> weeks.
> > >At that time, a baby born at 23 weeks had less than a 10 per cent
> chance
> > >of survival. Now, it has a 66 per cent chance and we must change the
> > >law again.
> > >
> > >My most vocal critics, Dr Donald Peebles at University College, London,
> > >and Dr Huseyin Mehmet at Imperial College, London, claim that these
> > >facial expressions are developmental reflexes. They are defending the
> > >abortion law as it stands.
> > >
> > >But I am equally keen to protect a woman's right to choose. I've
> > >watched women die from the after-effects of backstreet abortions. But
> > >we have to draw the line somewhere and 24 weeks is too late.
> > >
> > >Pain is a very difficult thing to measure in an unborn baby. Foetuses
> > >have no memory of pain, and no anticipation of it. But if you stuck a
> > >pin into a foetus, I believe it would make a crying face and flinch.
> > >Clearly, that's an experiment we can't carry out, but we can weigh up
> > >the evidence we have and make the best judgment possible.
> > >
> > >Babies born at 22 weeks are never treated without analgesics. Why, if
> > >there is scientific evidence to prove their brains are too
> > >under-developed to feel pain or distress, would they be given
> medication
> > >to protect them from pain? And if we accept that these babies may feel
> > >pain, why is it so difficult to imagine they would feel the same
> > >sensation inside the womb?
> > >
> > >I know if I gently push a baby in the womb at 28 weeks, it will make a
> > >crying face because it has been disturbed. How can we tell so
> precisely
> > >the point at which these expressions stop being simple reflexes and
> > >start to mean something?
> > >
> > >And even if they can't feel pain, they can certainly survive outside
> the
> > >womb. A study at University College Hospital found that 72 per cent of
> > >babies born at 24 weeks survive. Another study in Minneapolis between
> > >1996 and 2000 reported that at 23 weeks, 66 per cent survive and,
> though
> > >they may suffer serious medical complications, 30 per cent of babies
> > >born at 22 weeks will live.
> > >
> > >Those casting doubt on whether a smile is really a smile are, in my
> > >opinion, defending the indefensible. If a baby has reached a stage
> > >where it could survive in a neo-natal unit, then the pregnancy
> shouldn't
> > >be terminated for social reasons.
> > >
> > >And we must focus on terminations for social reasons if we are talking
> > >about amending the law. There are 1,200 terminations a year between 22
> > >and 24 weeks, 70 per cent of which are for non-medical reasons.
> > >
> > >We must grasp the nettle now. These are healthy babies, not
> brain-dead,
> > >feelingless creatures. When I see a foetus that can smile at me, I
> know
> > >absolutely that we should not tear it from the womb.
> > >
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/10/04/do0403.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2006/10/04/ixopinion.html
> > >
> > >For any Listers or Lurkers unfamiliar with Stuart Campbell, please look
> > >here ...
> > >
> > >http://www.ob-ultrasound.net/campbell.html
> > >
> > >Respectfully posted to generate discussion ...
> > >
> > >Art
> > >
> > >--
> > >art fougner, md
> > >"May The Wings of Liberty Never Lose a Feather." - Jack Burton
> > >
> >
> >--
> >" The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance,
> >it is the illusion of knowledge." Daniel J. Boorstin - Historian
>
--
R. Daniel Braun
"The way to health is an aromatic bath and scented massage everyday".
Hippocrates
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