Re: Informed consent --> legal smeagol
From: art fougner, md (evsono@pipeline.com)
Tue Jun 6 13:03:54 2006
The Light? lol ... Never underestimate the Power of the Dark Side.
art
At Tue, 06 Jun 2006, doctorjoe@aol.com wrote:
>
>But not to be a butt, Joe C., but the English system is slowly (but picking up speed) heading in the direction of the American system. E.g., contingency fees have been anathema in England but have been slowly creeping in for the last few years. Give'em time, Doctor, give'em time. They'll come into the light. LOL
>
>Joe P.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Cutchin < legal smeagol">forcep@intercom.net>
>To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L < legal smeagol">ob-gyn-l@dns.obgyn.net>
>Sent: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:19:47 -0500
>Subject: Re: Informed consent --> legal smeagol
>
>Just to butt in , Joe P. Our system comes from the English model. We should go back and look at the current English model ,which has hundreds of years behind it. In England ,to practice medical malpractice you must be certified by the bar in that area. Also to be an expert witness you must be certified by the Academy of Expert Witnesses and your testimony is followed closely. Also, you must present your case to a malpractice judge to see if it has merit and can go foward. And finally, loser pays.
>Talk about a legal rape for bucks , thats the good ole USA system. Joe C
>
> legal smeagol">doctorjoe@aol.com wrote:
>> Nice comment, el, but the MacDonald's coffee incident has a lot more > beneath the surface than most people understand (corporate intrigue, > lying, purposeful action, etc.). So that's NOT a good example for the > "real legal system" argument. The more you know about it, the more you > think Ronald MacDonald should get life (or at least as much time as the > Enron guys).
>> > Suffice it to say that the world's legal systems closely watch the U.S. > legal system, a work in progress (but progress is our most important > product, I've heard before) but still a model for everyone. Remember > that the U.S. legal "system" is the product of Europe, America (e.g. > allegedly the Iroquis Indian model, in some instances) and miscellaneous > other concepts put together as an as-yet-unequaled system of justice.
>> > Joe P. > > -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dr Eberhard Lisse < legal smeagol">el@lisse.NA>
>> To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L < legal smeagol">ob-gyn-l@dns.obgyn.net>
>> Sent: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:14:00 -0500
>> Subject: Re: Informed consent
>> > Well, in real countries, with real legal systems, a cup of coffee is
>> anticipated to be hot, and spilling it onto one's lap while driving
>> ones own car oneself, doesn't expose the maker of the coffee to
>> liability for the burn wounds.
>> > Or for that matter, a pregnancy almost always ends in a delivery, and in
>> most countries a midwife has in fact to be present at the delivery (by
>> law). But even if not mandated by statute, a women *in* *labour* coming
>> to the maternity ward for the delivery implicitly gives consent for the
>> delivery.
>> > el
>> > on 6/6/06 2:57 PM DoctorJoe@aol.com <mailto:DoctorJoe%40aol.com> said the following:
>>> >> In a message dated 6/5/06 5:36:05 PM, Babycatchers@aol.com <mailto:Babycatchers%40aol.com> writes:
>>> >> >>> Ok- our facility has an implied consent policy when the patient comes
>>>> in labor and is going to be delivered. They do not require a consent
>>>> for vaginal delivery, but they do consents for anything outside the
>>>> norm. Epidurals, C/S. BTL.
>>>> Should I be telling them to get consent for NSVD? Sometimes risk
>>>> management here is way behind the curve.
>>>>
>>> >> >> Well, think like a lawyer.
>>> >> What's the implied consent FOR? To show up at your institution and use
>>> your facilities and drop the baby on my own? Or actually for someone to
>>> lay hands on (or in?) me and help me deliver my baby? [Remember that
>>> battery is an unconsented TOUCHING, not just sitting around and watching
>>> someone do their own thing.]
>>> >> When someone shows up on the hospital's doorstep, they implicitely want
>>> to come in the door. However, they do NOT implicitely give consent for a
>>> variety of (mostly unknown) humans to touch them. So a specific consent
>>> EVEN for NSVD would seem to be prudent.
>>> >> Joe P.
>>> > > -- > Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse \ / Obstetrician & Gynaecologist (Saar)
>> el@lisse.NA <mailto:el%40lisse.NA> el108-ARIN / * | Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
>> PO Box 8421 \ / Please send DNS/NA-NiC related e-mail
>> Bachbrecht, Namibia ;____/ to dns-admin@na-nic.com.na <mailto:dns-admin%40na-nic.com.na>
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art fougner, md
"I drank what?" - Socrates
