Re: Not really Kick Counts
From: fran wilson (530rose@msn.com)
Tue Dec 20 12:03:51 2005
I completely get what you are saying about insurance company CEO's making a ton of money. If healthcare were run as a non-profit corporation, that would not happen. Nor would lobbyists. Nor would big pharma, nor would Bill Frist. (Of course, I realize that he had no idea that he sold that stock just before it went TU, neither did Martha Stewart. Lets see the double standard at work THERE!!)
And IF ONLY it were that easy to move to Canada! Getting a work permit is pretty challenging they say. I have a friend whose physician husband was welcomed with open arms (after the last presidential election) but she, a nurse and a midwife, has yet to get a work permit (over a year) and their kids, well forget about it!
I would be outa here in a second if it were as easy as you make it sound!
Taxes are high but they go for health care and environmental protection (amongst other things), and not to build bridges to nowhere for some egomaniac senator from Alaska or to subsidize big oil, or to go off and kill innocent people in other countries in the name of progress. Or for people who can't afford preventative medical care to get primary care through ER's, at the expense of taxpayers. We as a nation cannot stand by and let them DIE, so we do all kinds of expensive things for people who are really sick. We just don't do any of the less expensive things to help them stay well. We subsidize a national health care plan one way or the other.
Fran Wilson, CNM (on her soapbox once again, sorry, I'll try to behave)
From: "Richard Chudacoff, MD" <rchudacoff@mylinuxisp.com>
Reply-To: ob-gyn-l@obgyn.net
To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@dns.obgyn.net>
Subject: RE: Not really Kick Counts
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:37:09 -0600
They are not denied healthcare, just can’t afford to pay for it. There is a difference.
As far as being one of the most advanced countries, we are. However, we are totally devoid of sympathy or empathy (at least on the national level.)
Now is medical care a right or a privilege? If the former, then get a national healthcare system. If the latter, well, then you get what you pay for, or not as the case may be. But, everyone has a choice. They could move to Canada, and then the colposcopy would be paid for, through their high tax dollars.
I hate the whining that comes with not being able to afford healthcare. These are the same people who drop into the ER, get great care, get lives saved, get babies delivered, and then expect me and my colleagues to eat the cost. Hey, it is my job, not my charity. I work to support my family.
So, don’t like it, change the system, or change to another country. Pro-bono went out the door when the CEO of United Healthcare took home $140 million/yr
Richard Chudacoff, MD, FACOG
From: ob-gyn-l@obgyn.net [mailto:ob-gyn-l@obgyn.net] On Behalf Of fran wilson
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 11:19 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L
Subject: Re: Not really Kick Counts
I know several women right now with abnormal paps that can't get a colpo because they don't have money. Routine preventative care is not covered in the ER. Until it is too late. They may be able to afford my sliding scale pap smears but, unless they are really savvy, they have a hard time qualifying for intermediate care.
And many folks don't have adequate health care for their diabetes, etc, because they are undocumented. And dental care - don't even get me started on that! Even with my good insurance, I plan to go to Mexico for some bridgework.
McDonalds workers and 20 somethings without kids living just above the poverty line just put up with or self medicate for alot of symptoms before they get bad enough to go to the ER. And by then, the problem has grown to expensive and disabling.
It is not because they are watching TV, it is because they went to the ER once and ended up with a bill for a couple thousand dollars, that went to collections because they could not pay, that has now caused them the grief of not being able to get a decent apartment, a car, and sometimes even a job. Many of our service workers in this country - that keep the prices down and the unpleasant tasks done - have no access to primary care. And many of us with insurance (the more well off) OR with medicaid or medicare keep voting against a national health care plan because we might have to pay more taxes. Well, let me clue you, those ER visits, bad debts, and disability payments for what could have been found and treated during preventative care are what will end up costing us more money in the long run.
You are kidding yourselves if you think everyone can get health care in the US just by going to the ER, and expecting the ER to be someones primary care is saving a penny in preventative care in order to spend a dollar in treatment and disability.
A country that purports to be one of the most advanced in the world (and tries to tell the world how to run their business) ought to be ashamed! Think of those people as your families join around the holiday tree - or whatever is your prefernce - and enjoy expensive gifts and bountiful food. The missions and, in many cases, the bridge underpasses are full of disenfranchised people who not only have no health care they also have no food or shelter.
Warm Solstice Greetings!
Fran Wilson, CNM
From: doctorjoe@aol.com
Reply-To: ob-gyn-l@obgyn.net
To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@dns.obgyn.net>
Subject: Re: Not really Kick Counts
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:22:25 -0600
Only anecdotes I know of are because the patient ELECTED to abstain from medical care. Other things are more important, like staying at home and watching TV, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Folley <agfolley@hotmail.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@dns.obgyn.net>
Sent: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:16:17 -0600
Subject: Re: Not really Kick Counts
Does anyone know of any women in the US who has not recieved health care or does not have health care access available to her because of racial, age or financial reasons?
>From: Dr Eberhard Lisse <el@lisse.NA>
>Reply-To: ob-gyn-l@obgyn.net
>To: Multiple recipients of list OB-GYN-L <ob-gyn-l@dns.obgyn.net>
>Subject: Re: Not really Kick Counts
>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:16:08 -0600
>
>Zach,
>
>when you reach my age, you'll realize that I enjoy my posts
:-)-O
>
>I was not posting to the US medical community but to one clueless
>individual, though I do stand by the failures of society.
>
>In ! some countries the laws mandate health care for all, if only by the
>year 2010, 2020, 2030...
>
>The reason why this is not the case is because lions do not eat hyenas,
>hyenas share the spoils of lions' kills, thogh perhaps the lions don't
>like it :-)-O
>
>Same to you.
>
>el
>
>
>Zachariah Newton wrote:
> > Eberhard-
> >
> > You paint with a broader brush than Jackson Pollock, who threw paint
> > from cans against a palette.
> >
> > In the US, the medical
href="http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/">http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
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