Re: qualifications
From: Dr Eberhard W Lisse (el@lisse.NA)
Tue May 31 21:13:03 2005
This list is not called
mid-wife-l@dns.obgyn.net
doula-l@dns.obgyn.net
myth-busters-l@dns.obgyn.net
And it has a charter. And some of us even know what this means in
Netiquette.
We have been through this 5000 times before. It's a list for
Obstetricians and Gnyaecologists. I don't want to read midwife tales
here but obstetrics. If I want to read midwife tales I go and look their
lists up.
greetings, el
In message <1db.3cc73f93.2fce6716@aol.com>, DoctorJoe@aol.com writes:
>
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> In a message dated 5/31/05 6:48:38 PM, jane.wines@telus.net writes:
>
> > Since when were the only proffessionals OB's?
> > 70% of women in the UK and higher in some other countries have midwives and
> > never see Drs and the mortality and morbidity is lower than in the US. OB's
> > should be saved for high risk and complications only.
> > Hoping to goodness that you are just winding everyone up and not for real.
> >
>
> Wait, wait, wait! We're drifting into apples and oranges yet again.
>
> 1) OB's are not the ONLY "professionals." Seems to me that anyone who does
> anything for money is a "professional." So from the "oldest profession" on,
> anyone performing some function for a living is a "professional."
>
> 1) (A) I believe the original question concerned doulas and it implied some
> doubt as to whether they were qualified in the debate on mode/choice/whatever
>
> of obstetric care. My information tells me that doulas are emotional/physical
>
> supporters of labor which, without more, does not qualify them to expertly
> opine regarding conduct of labor in a medical discussion (e.g. between OBs,
> midwives, MFMs). Doubtless doulas are "professional" if they accept money for
> their
> services.
>
> 2) Comparisons of maternal and perinatal mortality statistics is fraught with
>
> difficulty due to different populations, different population heterogeneity,
> different statistical methods from country to country, and the like. Suffice
> it to say that, utilizing the chart under discussion, we'd all feel safer
> saying that Singapore has much better midwife/OB care than the U.K, right? Of
>
> course not!
>
> 3) The philosophy of 'saving' physicians only for complicated cases is just
> that, a philosophy, and is based on numerous factors (tradition, availability
> ,
> etc.) which differ from country to country and even within countries. The
> argument so far seems to be "My way is better because it is better! So there!
> "
> It's correct to say "My way is different because it's different."
>
> 4) Finally, El IS, in fact, for real. What most of "you people" (I LOVE that
> term! It's so politically incorrect!) miss is the fact that El steadfastly
> stands by HIS philosophy and refuses to be pushed around by emotionalism. If
> you
> show him facts, he will listen. I wager you won't be able to show him many
> appropriate facts, because of (3) and (2) above.
>
> Anyway, I'm tired of apples and oranges. We just got a flat of great
> Louisiana strawberries (MUCH better, by the way, than the California strawber
> ries
> which show up on the grocery shelves down here) and I'm going to get some and
> have
> them with my Chardonnay (and yes, it's Australian Chardonnay, Mate).
>
> Cheers!
> Joe P.
>
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> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Gen> eva" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="2"><BR>
> In a message dated 5/31/05 6:48:38 PM, jane.wines@telus.net writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE CITE STYLE="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;=2
> 0> MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" TYPE="CITE"></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0> 00000" FACE="Geneva" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="2">Since when were the o> nly proffessionals OB's?<BR>
> 70% of women in the UK and higher in some other countries have midwives and<> BR>
> never see Drs and the mortality and morbidity is lower than in the US. OB's<> BR>
> should be saved for high risk and complications only.<BR>
> Hoping to goodness that you are just winding everyone up and not for real.<B> R>
> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Geneva" FAMILY="SANSSE> RIF" SIZE="2"><BR>
> <BR>
> Wait, wait, wait! We're drifting into apples and oranges yet again.<BR>
> <BR>
> 1) OB's are not the ONLY "professionals." Seems to me that anyone who does a> nything for money is a "professional." So from the "oldest profession" on, a> nyone performing some function for a living is a "professional." <BR>
> <BR>
> 1) (A) I believe the original question concerned doulas and it implied some=2
> 0> doubt as to whether they were qualified in the debate on mode/choice/whateve> r of obstetric care. My information tells me that doulas are emotional/physi> cal supporters of labor which, without more, does not qualify them to expert> ly opine regarding conduct of labor in a medical discussion (e.g. between OB> s, midwives, MFMs). Doubtless doulas are "professional" if they accept money> for their services. <BR>
> <BR>
> 2) Comparisons of maternal and perinatal mortality statistics is fraught wit> h difficulty due to different populations, different population heterogeneit> y, different statistical methods from country to country, and the like. Suff> ice it to say that, utilizing the chart under discussion, we'd all feel safe> r saying that Singapore has much better midwife/OB care than the U.K, right?> Of course not!<BR>
> <BR>
> 3) The philosophy of 'saving' physicians only for complicated cases is just=2
> 0> that, a philosophy, and is based on numerous factors (tradition, availabilit> y, etc.) which differ from country to country and even within countries. The> argument so far seems to be "My way is better because it is better! So ther> e!" It's correct to say "My way is different because it's different." <BR>
> <BR>
> 4) Finally, El IS, in fact, for real. What most of "you people" (I LOVE that> term! It's so politically incorrect!) miss is the fact that El steadfastly=2
> 0> stands by HIS philosophy and refuses to be pushed around by emotionalism. If> you show him facts, he will listen. I wager you won't be able to show him m> any appropriate facts, because of (3) and (2) above. <BR>
> <BR>
> Anyway, I'm tired of apples and oranges. We just got a flat of great Louisia> na strawberries (MUCH better, by the way, than the California strawberries w> hich show up on the grocery shelves down here) and I'm going to get some and> have them with my Chardonnay (and yes, it's Australian Chardonnay, Mate).<B> R>
> <BR>
> Cheers!<BR>
> <BR>
> Joe P.<BR>
> <BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Geneva" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="> 2"></FONT></HTML>
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