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Re: currence, younger womenFrom: annie (anonymous@obgyn.net)Sat Dec 27 15:06:25 2008
i responded to you because you are assuming that i said cec is the only good place to go to. i never stated cec is the only good place to go. like i said, different treatments work for different people. there are good and bad doctors. At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: > >I did read your response, and my point is that many other >women have been helped surgically by many other excisionists. >They too have been pain free for years and end up conceiving naturally. >If you have perceived my post to be negative and judgemental, >that is not my problem. >I only want women to fully research ALL of their surgical >options. This includes researching OTHER excisionists, not >just the CEC. > >At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, annie wrote: >> >>if you read my response you would see that i said there are some drs >>that are more skilled than others meaning not just cec. the only reason >>why i brought up cec is because of my personal experience with cec and >>because you made a negative statement about cec. you have a right to >>your personal opinion, but right now i think your conversations with >>others on the forum are out of line. i thought this forum was to >>support women with endo, not to create arguments and negative energy. >>everyone's situation is unique- you should not be so judgemental and >>angry. different treatments work for different women. stop being so >>negative about womens choice of treatment-be supportive. >>At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>> >>>The CEC doctors may be skilled excisionists, but many doctors are >>>skilled at excision and treatment of endometriosis: Dr. Robbins and Dr. >>>Redwine, Dr. Lyons, Dr. Cook, etc. I am not going to list all of them >>>here. >>>They all have their different methods, and many women have been helped >>>by them. >>>Dr. Lyons has even written a book about endo. >>>But all you people do is PUSH the CEC here, like they are the only >>>doctors who can treat endo, when it's not true. There are many other >>>doctors out there. >>>But there are women who are with the ERC who come here specifically to >>>push the CEC and the ERC, and that is evident by the links at the bottom >>>of their posts. >>>Women should continue to do their own research and question the validity >>>of statistics that are self reported. >>>It seems like this site is the old soviet union: just one way, the CEC. >>>And no other doctors. Well, that is not so, we are still in America, >>>there are >>>plenty of endo doctors who can deal with this disease just as >>>effectively, and some even more effectively, than the CEC. >>>Spewing their stats to make them seem more qualified is not helpful at >>>all, and is downright deceptive. >>> >>>At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, annie wrote: >>>> >>>>that is great to know but this is what it all balls down to: >>>>endometriosis has no cure. but even though there is no cure, there are >>>>good and bad treatments for it just like there are doctors who are more >>>>skilled at performing laproscopic surgery and doctors that suck at it. >>>>cec is known for helping many women with endometriosis. many women >>>>state that they have been pain free for years after surgery and are able >>>>to conceive naturally. because there is no cure, there is always going >>>>to be a percentage of people who have not benefited from cec. if you >>>>compare the resposes of women who have gone to cec: the percentage of >>>>women who have benefitted from cec is farrrrrrrrr greater than those who >>>>have not. >>>> >>>>At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>>> >>>>>This site >http://www.health-mediainfo.net/Women-Health/105499.htm >>>>> >>>>>is from the ERC, the person who voluntarily monitors the ERC site is >>>>>Heather G., who is employed by the CEC. >>>>> >>>>>Consider the source. Naturally, her aim is to guide people to the CEC >>>>>despite there being other exceptional exsionists. >>>>> >>>>>At Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>''Recent studies have also shown that Endometriosis may in fact have an >>>>>>even bigger impact on younger patients than older women. One such study >>>>>>discovered that in patients under 22 years of age, the rate of disease >>>>>>recurrence was double that of older women (35% versus 19%). The study >>>>>>also revealed that the disease behaves differently in younger women; >>>>>>leading some researchers to believe it is a different form of >>>>>>Endometriosis altogether. Surgery, considered necessary to accurately >>>>>>diagnose and effectively treat the disease, is often withheld from >>>>>>younger patients based on the injudicious belief that early surgery >>>>>>somehow negatively influences a young woman’s fertility. Extensive, >>>>>>cumulative research has shown this concern to be unfounded. What can >>>>>>impact fertility, however, is neglecting effective treatment of the >>>>>>disease. Some researchers also feel that symptomatic, adolescent-onset >>>>>>Endometriosis is most often a lifelong problem that will progress to >>>>>>severe fibrotic disease. >>>>>> >>>>>>While it is possible to become pregnant with Endometriosis, the key is >>>>>>to obtain early, effective treatment such as that offered by specialty >>>>>>treatment centers like the Center for Endo Care (see >>>>>>http://www.centerforendo.com to learn about the success of excision as >>>>>>treatment). Hysterectomy is not a cure for Endometriosis. Any disease >>>>>>left behind by the surgeon (whether by design because he or she >>>>>>'couldn't get it all' or accident because they don't recognize the >>>>>>disease in all manifestations) will continue to thrive and cause pain >>>>>>and symptoms. It does not matter if the ovaries are removed or if HRT >>>>>>is withheld; Endo produces its own estrogen-synthesizing enzyme known as >>>>>>aromatase. Thus, it enables it's own vicious life cycle and sustains >>>>>>the disease process. You would be better off getting all disease truly >>>>>>excised from all locations at a specialty center like the CEC >>>>>>(http://www.centerforendo.com).'' >>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.health-mediainfo.net/Women-Health/105499.htm >>>>>> >>>>>>At Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>How is NWeber misinformed? she stated the same thing you did. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>At Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> NWeber is misinformed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>LAPEX surgery is an anacronym for 'laporascopic excision'. The LAP >>>>>>>>stands for laporascopic. The EX stands for Excision. This type of >>>>>>>>surgery can be performed by using different tools, either a LASER at the >>>>>>>>CEC, or by Redwine, by monopolar scissors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Deep removal of endometriosis can be done by laser or scissors, >>>>>>>>only in the hands of a key endometriosis expert. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If an expert operates on you with a laser, he knows how much to cut, >>>>>>>>where to cut, and this will lead to excision. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>It is really not the tool that is in question, but the skill of the >>>>>>>>surgeon. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If a regular ob/gyn uses a laser and they aren't all that familiar with >>>>>>>>endo, they may end up burning small endo implants deeper into tissue >>>>>>>>(thus it will come back). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>An expert will know how deep to cut in order to completely >>>>>>>>excise the implant, whether he uses a laser or a scissor like >>>>>>>>instrument. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In addition, there are many different types of lasers that the experts >>>>>>>>can use at their disposal. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Look here at Dr. A at CEC: >>>>>>>>http://www.centerforendo.com/articles/excision.htm >>>>>>>>Nowhere does he mention he does NOT use a laser as a cutting tool. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>There is mention that he uses no LASER ABLATION, but that is a >>>>>>>>completely different thing than using a laser for excision. For >>>>>>>>excision, the doctor uses the laser as a cutting tool to cut the endo >>>>>>>>out. In laser ablation, the laser is only used to destroy the tissue, >>>>>>>>not necessarily get rid of it, but to burn it out. If laser ablation is >>>>>>>>used, it is the typical 'laser surgery' that most gyns do. This laser >>>>>>>>surgery is destructive, burning away the tissue, but not completely, >>>>>>>>letting some endo tissue also get burned up and still stay in place. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>At Thu, 25 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Thank you, NWeber! you know your stuff, and explain it well >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, NWeber wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>There is one thing that needs to be cleared up here, so that >>>>>>>>>>misinformation isn't spread through this topic. Laser surgery is in no >>>>>>>>>>way the same as LAPEX (excision surgery.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>A traditional laser does nothing for endo. It burns it off by way of >>>>>>>>>>vaporization, then comes right back, and many patients experience worse >>>>>>>>>>symptoms after laser or burning surgeries. LAPEX(excision surgery) >>>>>>>>>>removes deep down the implants of the endometriosis. This is the reason >>>>>>>>>>it works well and places like the CEC and Dr. Redwine. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Most RE's do not know the correct way to remove endo, many remove it by >>>>>>>>>>typical lasers or by burning. This is the common problem with this >>>>>>>>>>disease, we take the word of RE's or regular OBGYN's and think that they >>>>>>>>>>know what they are doing. With this disease, you must understand that >>>>>>>>>>excision is the only successful way to remove this disease, and even at >>>>>>>>>>times, in difficult cases, it can come back. However, the timeline is >>>>>>>>>>much better with excision surgery. Some people have one excision >>>>>>>>>>surgery and never need another, some it lasts five years. Each person >>>>>>>>>>is different. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Please research and understand the difference between lasers and LAPEX. >>>>>>>>>>These instruments are not the same. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Dr. Redwine's site or the CEC is a great place for explanation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, Kristy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Some of the top endo specialists are also infertility specialists like >>>>>>>>>>>Dr. Perloe also in Atlanta (which I am not sure if he's still >>>>>>>>>>>practicing right now). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Endo specialists are regular OB/GYNs who gave up doing the deliveries to >>>>>>>>>>>try and help other women with endo, and some of them also have >>>>>>>>>>>additional training in Reproductive Endocrinology (the infertility >>>>>>>>>>>specialists). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>The techniques used by endo specialists whether they are regular OB/GYNs >>>>>>>>>>>or those that are also infertility specialists are not that much >>>>>>>>>>>different than what is used by a private doctor in the community other >>>>>>>>>>>than the amount of experience with those techniques. Not the names of >>>>>>>>>>>the techniques. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>LAPEX is just another way to say that endo is being removed thru >>>>>>>>>>>excision done thru laparoscopic surgery. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>The laser is just an instrument used to remove the endo whether it's >>>>>>>>>>>done thru excision or one of the other methods. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>For years it used to be primarily infertility specialists that mostly >>>>>>>>>>>saw endo (read this in one of the books on endo) because of those women >>>>>>>>>>>that were looking to try and get pregnant and couldn't do it on their >>>>>>>>>>>own. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, annie wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>infertility specialists and endo specialists have different techniques, >>>>>>>>>>>>or different names for their techniques >>>>>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, Kristy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>The laser is just an instrument used to remove endo and in the hands of >>>>>>>>>>>>>experienced doctors the laser can be used to excise endo. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Also, the CEC uses the laser to do the excision of endo in their >>>>>>>>>>>>>patients (read this on another endo list, the ERC one I think but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>can't remember right now) instead of the monopolar scissors like Dr. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Redwine uses. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Some doctors including my own uses a harmonic scalpel. I first heard >>>>>>>>>>>>>about harmonic scalpel from this list about 6 years ago. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, annie wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>i went back to the infertility doctor yesterday to let her know that i >>>>>>>>>>>>>>am going to get LAPEX surgery from CEC in atlanta to get rid of my endo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>and increase my chances of getting pregnant. the infertility obgyn had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>no clue what LAPEX was. i found this to be a little disturbing becuase >>>>>>>>>>>>>>the hospital i went to was a research hospital. i guess regular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>infertility doctors are not trained on LAPEX they are trained on just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>regular lasering endo. they just laser what they see .there main goal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>is to get me pregnant not worrying about the long term effect of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>hormones and inseminations. and if i chose to do insemination, the endo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>would still be there and it would get worse and i would have to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>insemination again if i wanted more children. this is why a am putting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>it into the hands of dr. sinervo who is an expert in getting rid of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>endo- this will be better for me in the long run and increase my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>fertility >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>>>>>===== >>>>>>>>>>>>>Kristy :) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/sokokl/Kristysstory.html >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>>>===== >>>>>>>>>>>Kristy :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/sokokl/Kristysstory.html >>>>>>>>>>>
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