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Re: currence, younger womenFrom: annie (anonymous@obgyn.net)Sat Dec 27 14:48:07 2008
if you read my response you would see that i said there are some drs that are more skilled than others meaning not just cec. the only reason why i brought up cec is because of my personal experience with cec and because you made a negative statement about cec. you have a right to your personal opinion, but right now i think your conversations with others on the forum are out of line. i thought this forum was to support women with endo, not to create arguments and negative energy. everyone's situation is unique- you should not be so judgemental and angry. different treatments work for different women. stop being so negative about womens choice of treatment-be supportive. At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: > >The CEC doctors may be skilled excisionists, but many doctors are >skilled at excision and treatment of endometriosis: Dr. Robbins and Dr. >Redwine, Dr. Lyons, Dr. Cook, etc. I am not going to list all of them >here. >They all have their different methods, and many women have been helped >by them. >Dr. Lyons has even written a book about endo. >But all you people do is PUSH the CEC here, like they are the only >doctors who can treat endo, when it's not true. There are many other >doctors out there. >But there are women who are with the ERC who come here specifically to >push the CEC and the ERC, and that is evident by the links at the bottom >of their posts. >Women should continue to do their own research and question the validity >of statistics that are self reported. >It seems like this site is the old soviet union: just one way, the CEC. >And no other doctors. Well, that is not so, we are still in America, >there are >plenty of endo doctors who can deal with this disease just as >effectively, and some even more effectively, than the CEC. >Spewing their stats to make them seem more qualified is not helpful at >all, and is downright deceptive. > >At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, annie wrote: >> >>that is great to know but this is what it all balls down to: >>endometriosis has no cure. but even though there is no cure, there are >>good and bad treatments for it just like there are doctors who are more >>skilled at performing laproscopic surgery and doctors that suck at it. >>cec is known for helping many women with endometriosis. many women >>state that they have been pain free for years after surgery and are able >>to conceive naturally. because there is no cure, there is always going >>to be a percentage of people who have not benefited from cec. if you >>compare the resposes of women who have gone to cec: the percentage of >>women who have benefitted from cec is farrrrrrrrr greater than those who >>have not. >> >>At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>> >>>This site >http://www.health-mediainfo.net/Women-Health/105499.htm >>> >>>is from the ERC, the person who voluntarily monitors the ERC site is >>>Heather G., who is employed by the CEC. >>> >>>Consider the source. Naturally, her aim is to guide people to the CEC >>>despite there being other exceptional exsionists. >>> >>>At Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>> >>>>''Recent studies have also shown that Endometriosis may in fact have an >>>>even bigger impact on younger patients than older women. One such study >>>>discovered that in patients under 22 years of age, the rate of disease >>>>recurrence was double that of older women (35% versus 19%). The study >>>>also revealed that the disease behaves differently in younger women; >>>>leading some researchers to believe it is a different form of >>>>Endometriosis altogether. Surgery, considered necessary to accurately >>>>diagnose and effectively treat the disease, is often withheld from >>>>younger patients based on the injudicious belief that early surgery >>>>somehow negatively influences a young woman’s fertility. Extensive, >>>>cumulative research has shown this concern to be unfounded. What can >>>>impact fertility, however, is neglecting effective treatment of the >>>>disease. Some researchers also feel that symptomatic, adolescent-onset >>>>Endometriosis is most often a lifelong problem that will progress to >>>>severe fibrotic disease. >>>> >>>>While it is possible to become pregnant with Endometriosis, the key is >>>>to obtain early, effective treatment such as that offered by specialty >>>>treatment centers like the Center for Endo Care (see >>>>http://www.centerforendo.com to learn about the success of excision as >>>>treatment). Hysterectomy is not a cure for Endometriosis. Any disease >>>>left behind by the surgeon (whether by design because he or she >>>>'couldn't get it all' or accident because they don't recognize the >>>>disease in all manifestations) will continue to thrive and cause pain >>>>and symptoms. It does not matter if the ovaries are removed or if HRT >>>>is withheld; Endo produces its own estrogen-synthesizing enzyme known as >>>>aromatase. Thus, it enables it's own vicious life cycle and sustains >>>>the disease process. You would be better off getting all disease truly >>>>excised from all locations at a specialty center like the CEC >>>>(http://www.centerforendo.com).'' >>>> >>>>http://www.health-mediainfo.net/Women-Health/105499.htm >>>> >>>>At Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>>> >>>>>How is NWeber misinformed? she stated the same thing you did. >>>>> >>>>>At Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> NWeber is misinformed. >>>>>> >>>>>>LAPEX surgery is an anacronym for 'laporascopic excision'. The LAP >>>>>>stands for laporascopic. The EX stands for Excision. This type of >>>>>>surgery can be performed by using different tools, either a LASER at the >>>>>>CEC, or by Redwine, by monopolar scissors. >>>>>> >>>>>>Deep removal of endometriosis can be done by laser or scissors, >>>>>>only in the hands of a key endometriosis expert. >>>>>> >>>>>>If an expert operates on you with a laser, he knows how much to cut, >>>>>>where to cut, and this will lead to excision. >>>>>> >>>>>>It is really not the tool that is in question, but the skill of the >>>>>>surgeon. >>>>>> >>>>>>If a regular ob/gyn uses a laser and they aren't all that familiar with >>>>>>endo, they may end up burning small endo implants deeper into tissue >>>>>>(thus it will come back). >>>>>> >>>>>>An expert will know how deep to cut in order to completely >>>>>>excise the implant, whether he uses a laser or a scissor like >>>>>>instrument. >>>>>> >>>>>>In addition, there are many different types of lasers that the experts >>>>>>can use at their disposal. >>>>>> >>>>>>Look here at Dr. A at CEC: >>>>>>http://www.centerforendo.com/articles/excision.htm >>>>>>Nowhere does he mention he does NOT use a laser as a cutting tool. >>>>>> >>>>>>There is mention that he uses no LASER ABLATION, but that is a >>>>>>completely different thing than using a laser for excision. For >>>>>>excision, the doctor uses the laser as a cutting tool to cut the endo >>>>>>out. In laser ablation, the laser is only used to destroy the tissue, >>>>>>not necessarily get rid of it, but to burn it out. If laser ablation is >>>>>>used, it is the typical 'laser surgery' that most gyns do. This laser >>>>>>surgery is destructive, burning away the tissue, but not completely, >>>>>>letting some endo tissue also get burned up and still stay in place. >>>>>> >>>>>>At Thu, 25 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thank you, NWeber! you know your stuff, and explain it well >>>>>>> >>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, NWeber wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>There is one thing that needs to be cleared up here, so that >>>>>>>>misinformation isn't spread through this topic. Laser surgery is in no >>>>>>>>way the same as LAPEX (excision surgery.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>A traditional laser does nothing for endo. It burns it off by way of >>>>>>>>vaporization, then comes right back, and many patients experience worse >>>>>>>>symptoms after laser or burning surgeries. LAPEX(excision surgery) >>>>>>>>removes deep down the implants of the endometriosis. This is the reason >>>>>>>>it works well and places like the CEC and Dr. Redwine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Most RE's do not know the correct way to remove endo, many remove it by >>>>>>>>typical lasers or by burning. This is the common problem with this >>>>>>>>disease, we take the word of RE's or regular OBGYN's and think that they >>>>>>>>know what they are doing. With this disease, you must understand that >>>>>>>>excision is the only successful way to remove this disease, and even at >>>>>>>>times, in difficult cases, it can come back. However, the timeline is >>>>>>>>much better with excision surgery. Some people have one excision >>>>>>>>surgery and never need another, some it lasts five years. Each person >>>>>>>>is different. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Please research and understand the difference between lasers and LAPEX. >>>>>>>>These instruments are not the same. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Dr. Redwine's site or the CEC is a great place for explanation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, Kristy wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Some of the top endo specialists are also infertility specialists like >>>>>>>>>Dr. Perloe also in Atlanta (which I am not sure if he's still >>>>>>>>>practicing right now). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Endo specialists are regular OB/GYNs who gave up doing the deliveries to >>>>>>>>>try and help other women with endo, and some of them also have >>>>>>>>>additional training in Reproductive Endocrinology (the infertility >>>>>>>>>specialists). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The techniques used by endo specialists whether they are regular OB/GYNs >>>>>>>>>or those that are also infertility specialists are not that much >>>>>>>>>different than what is used by a private doctor in the community other >>>>>>>>>than the amount of experience with those techniques. Not the names of >>>>>>>>>the techniques. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>LAPEX is just another way to say that endo is being removed thru >>>>>>>>>excision done thru laparoscopic surgery. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The laser is just an instrument used to remove the endo whether it's >>>>>>>>>done thru excision or one of the other methods. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>For years it used to be primarily infertility specialists that mostly >>>>>>>>>saw endo (read this in one of the books on endo) because of those women >>>>>>>>>that were looking to try and get pregnant and couldn't do it on their >>>>>>>>>own. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, annie wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>infertility specialists and endo specialists have different techniques, >>>>>>>>>>or different names for their techniques >>>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, Kristy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>The laser is just an instrument used to remove endo and in the hands of >>>>>>>>>>>experienced doctors the laser can be used to excise endo. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Also, the CEC uses the laser to do the excision of endo in their >>>>>>>>>>>patients (read this on another endo list, the ERC one I think but I >>>>>>>>>>>can't remember right now) instead of the monopolar scissors like Dr. >>>>>>>>>>>Redwine uses. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Some doctors including my own uses a harmonic scalpel. I first heard >>>>>>>>>>>about harmonic scalpel from this list about 6 years ago. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, annie wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>i went back to the infertility doctor yesterday to let her know that i >>>>>>>>>>>>am going to get LAPEX surgery from CEC in atlanta to get rid of my endo >>>>>>>>>>>>and increase my chances of getting pregnant. the infertility obgyn had >>>>>>>>>>>>no clue what LAPEX was. i found this to be a little disturbing becuase >>>>>>>>>>>>the hospital i went to was a research hospital. i guess regular >>>>>>>>>>>>infertility doctors are not trained on LAPEX they are trained on just >>>>>>>>>>>>regular lasering endo. they just laser what they see .there main goal >>>>>>>>>>>>is to get me pregnant not worrying about the long term effect of >>>>>>>>>>>>hormones and inseminations. and if i chose to do insemination, the endo >>>>>>>>>>>>would still be there and it would get worse and i would have to do >>>>>>>>>>>>insemination again if i wanted more children. this is why a am putting >>>>>>>>>>>>it into the hands of dr. sinervo who is an expert in getting rid of the >>>>>>>>>>>>endo- this will be better for me in the long run and increase my >>>>>>>>>>>>fertility >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>>>===== >>>>>>>>>>>Kristy :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/sokokl/Kristysstory.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>===== >>>>>>>>>Kristy :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/sokokl/Kristysstory.html >>>>>>>>>
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