Re: CEC website, recurrence
From: anonymous (anonymous@obgyn.net)
Sat Dec 27 14:17:26 2008
No, I'm not. Are you the annoying woman who keeps cross examining
everyone who has an alternative view?
I would like them to be peer reviewed, yes. In fact, I would like them
to write a book about how successful their surgeries are. The fact
that NONE of these doctors has written a book makes me suspicious about
their claims of success, and the fact that the ERC and the CEC are
linked through an employee of the CEC makes me even more suspicious.
Many other doctors have done tons more than the CEC doctors, and some
have even written about it.
If they care so much, why don't they do more for the women with endo
besides the surgery? Can you name one other thing they do besides
operate on them (and be on the 'board' of the ERC, which by the way, has
written no book on endo, either)????
You can argue all you want, and say nasty things about me, but I and
others know the truth: their statistics are skewed in their favor. They
have no proof of their 'success' other than their 'surveys'.
At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote:
>
>are you the anti-CEC woman who has the blog?
>
>who would you like to peer review them? how many other doctors have
>cared enough to go into this tedious and not always rewarding
>surgery?????????????????????????????????????
>
>At Sat, 27 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote:
>>
>>These numbers are based on their own studies. Not peer reviewed. In
>>fact, no
>>one has reviewed these numbers except the CEC's own doctors. They can
>>print
>>whatever numbers they want, but they cannot PROVE their numbers are
>>accurate.
>>There are a number of problems wrong with survey statistics. The least
>>of which is the responses tend to be non objective, and not measurable.
>>The CEC has produced no book on the recurrance rate, and none of their
>>doctors has written a book on endo.
>>I am not saying they are not specialists, they are. And very effective
>>specialists. But when you see such low rates of recurrance that are
>>SELF-REPORTED, beware.
>>Doctors always want themselves to look good. And statistics that low
>>are only reliable if they are replicable. That is, if other doctors can
>>get the same low rates as they claim to.
>>The rate of recurrance of endo is actually slightly higher, more like
>>20-30%. Unless they can actually produce documentation of every patient
>>they have, they cannot claim these low rates simply by 'follow up
>>surveys'.
>>They have never produced any documentation or published any
>>documentation of the rates of recurrance of their patients.
>>
>>At Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote:
>>>
>>>''Our follow-up surveys dating back to 1991 for hundreds of women
>>>demonstrate a recurrence rate of only 10-15%. More than 85 of every 100
>>>women will have no more endometriosis. Of the remaining patients, those
>>>who do have endometriosis generally have one or two small foci that were
>>>not removed at surgery. This can be by accident or design (as in the
>>>case of a woman with very limited tubal endometriosis, where it is felt
>>>that deep excision could lead to scarring contraindicated in a woman
>>>trying to conceive. Such cases are very infrequent). ''...
>>>
>>>''Drug therapy that can destroy endometriosis has yet to be discovered.
>>>The best such drugs can do is (sometimes) suppress endometriosis. So a
>>>woman who uses such medications keeps herself at risk that the effects
>>>of her endometriosis will worsen. ''
>>>
>>>http://www.centerforendo.com/articles/excision.htm
>>>
>>>Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote:
>>>>
>>>>How is NWeber misinformed? she stated the same thing you did.
>>>>
>>>>At Fri, 26 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> NWeber is misinformed.
>>>>>
>>>>>LAPEX surgery is an anacronym for 'laporascopic excision'. The LAP
>>>>>stands for laporascopic. The EX stands for Excision. This type of
>>>>>surgery can be performed by using different tools, either a LASER at the
>>>>>CEC, or by Redwine, by monopolar scissors.
>>>>>
>>>>>Deep removal of endometriosis can be done by laser or scissors,
>>>>>only in the hands of a key endometriosis expert.
>>>>>
>>>>>If an expert operates on you with a laser, he knows how much to cut,
>>>>>where to cut, and this will lead to excision.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is really not the tool that is in question, but the skill of the
>>>>>surgeon.
>>>>>
>>>>>If a regular ob/gyn uses a laser and they aren't all that familiar with
>>>>>endo, they may end up burning small endo implants deeper into tissue
>>>>>(thus it will come back).
>>>>>
>>>>>An expert will know how deep to cut in order to completely
>>>>>excise the implant, whether he uses a laser or a scissor like
>>>>>instrument.
>>>>>
>>>>>In addition, there are many different types of lasers that the experts
>>>>>can use at their disposal.
>>>>>
>>>>>Look here at Dr. A at CEC:
>>>>>http://www.centerforendo.com/articles/excision.htm
>>>>>Nowhere does he mention he does NOT use a laser as a cutting tool.
>>>>>
>>>>>There is mention that he uses no LASER ABLATION, but that is a
>>>>>completely different thing than using a laser for excision. For
>>>>>excision, the doctor uses the laser as a cutting tool to cut the endo
>>>>>out. In laser ablation, the laser is only used to destroy the tissue,
>>>>>not necessarily get rid of it, but to burn it out. If laser ablation is
>>>>>used, it is the typical 'laser surgery' that most gyns do. This laser
>>>>>surgery is destructive, burning away the tissue, but not completely,
>>>>>letting some endo tissue also get burned up and still stay in place.
>>>>>
>>>>>At Thu, 25 Dec 2008, anonymous wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you, NWeber! you know your stuff, and explain it well
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, NWeber wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There is one thing that needs to be cleared up here, so that
>>>>>>>misinformation isn't spread through this topic. Laser surgery is in no
>>>>>>>way the same as LAPEX (excision surgery.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A traditional laser does nothing for endo. It burns it off by way of
>>>>>>>vaporization, then comes right back, and many patients experience worse
>>>>>>>symptoms after laser or burning surgeries. LAPEX(excision surgery)
>>>>>>>removes deep down the implants of the endometriosis. This is the reason
>>>>>>>it works well and places like the CEC and Dr. Redwine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Most RE's do not know the correct way to remove endo, many remove it by
>>>>>>>typical lasers or by burning. This is the common problem with this
>>>>>>>disease, we take the word of RE's or regular OBGYN's and think that they
>>>>>>>know what they are doing. With this disease, you must understand that
>>>>>>>excision is the only successful way to remove this disease, and even at
>>>>>>>times, in difficult cases, it can come back. However, the timeline is
>>>>>>>much better with excision surgery. Some people have one excision
>>>>>>>surgery and never need another, some it lasts five years. Each person
>>>>>>>is different.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Please research and understand the difference between lasers and LAPEX.
>>>>>>>These instruments are not the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dr. Redwine's site or the CEC is a great place for explanation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, Kristy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Some of the top endo specialists are also infertility specialists like
>>>>>>>>Dr. Perloe also in Atlanta (which I am not sure if he's still
>>>>>>>>practicing right now).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Endo specialists are regular OB/GYNs who gave up doing the deliveries to
>>>>>>>>try and help other women with endo, and some of them also have
>>>>>>>>additional training in Reproductive Endocrinology (the infertility
>>>>>>>>specialists).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The techniques used by endo specialists whether they are regular OB/GYNs
>>>>>>>>or those that are also infertility specialists are not that much
>>>>>>>>different than what is used by a private doctor in the community other
>>>>>>>>than the amount of experience with those techniques. Not the names of
>>>>>>>>the techniques.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>LAPEX is just another way to say that endo is being removed thru
>>>>>>>>excision done thru laparoscopic surgery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The laser is just an instrument used to remove the endo whether it's
>>>>>>>>done thru excision or one of the other methods.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For years it used to be primarily infertility specialists that mostly
>>>>>>>>saw endo (read this in one of the books on endo) because of those women
>>>>>>>>that were looking to try and get pregnant and couldn't do it on their
>>>>>>>>own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, annie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>infertility specialists and endo specialists have different techniques,
>>>>>>>>>or different names for their techniques
>>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, Kristy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The laser is just an instrument used to remove endo and in the hands of
>>>>>>>>>>experienced doctors the laser can be used to excise endo.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Also, the CEC uses the laser to do the excision of endo in their
>>>>>>>>>>patients (read this on another endo list, the ERC one I think but I
>>>>>>>>>>can't remember right now) instead of the monopolar scissors like Dr.
>>>>>>>>>>Redwine uses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Some doctors including my own uses a harmonic scalpel. I first heard
>>>>>>>>>>about harmonic scalpel from this list about 6 years ago.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>At Wed, 24 Dec 2008, annie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>i went back to the infertility doctor yesterday to let her know that i
>>>>>>>>>>>am going to get LAPEX surgery from CEC in atlanta to get rid of my endo
>>>>>>>>>>>and increase my chances of getting pregnant. the infertility obgyn had
>>>>>>>>>>>no clue what LAPEX was. i found this to be a little disturbing becuase
>>>>>>>>>>>the hospital i went to was a research hospital. i guess regular
>>>>>>>>>>>infertility doctors are not trained on LAPEX they are trained on just
>>>>>>>>>>>regular lasering endo. they just laser what they see .there main goal
>>>>>>>>>>>is to get me pregnant not worrying about the long term effect of
>>>>>>>>>>>hormones and inseminations. and if i chose to do insemination, the endo
>>>>>>>>>>>would still be there and it would get worse and i would have to do
>>>>>>>>>>>insemination again if i wanted more children. this is why a am putting
>>>>>>>>>>>it into the hands of dr. sinervo who is an expert in getting rid of the
>>>>>>>>>>>endo- this will be better for me in the long run and increase my
>>>>>>>>>>>fertility
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>>=====
>>>>>>>>>>Kristy :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/sokokl/Kristysstory.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>=====
>>>>>>>>Kristy :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/sokokl/Kristysstory.html
>>>>>>>>
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