|
Re: Progesterone creams
From: Amy (anonymous@obgyn.net)
Thu Dec 26 17:00:36 2002
It just seems like people can get 'testy' in here, and lose focus on the
issues at hand. I appreciate the fact that people share what has worked
and what has not, but believe that different things work for different
people, whether it be the medical or alternative route. At first I had
this site bookmarked to see what has worked for different people, so
that I could possibly try it out on myself. I did learn from many that
a hysterectomy is not necessarily a cure all. -but then again, the
Endometriosis Association and the Endometriosis Research Center has
basically the same data. There are some decent people in here who truly
do try to help others, yet there are some who just continue to complain.
It is redundant. Overall I am disappointed in this forum, and will now
delete it from my bookmarks. I can do my own research as I have been,
just as you do, Victoria, BJ, and a few others. Hopefully, other women
will do the same, and will find something that works for them. I wish
all of you much success in relieving your pain. God Bless all of you.
At Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Victoria wrote:
>
>To All, Including Victoria, I think it is important that women with Endometriosis learn about all of the options available, whether it be medical, alternative, etc. Personally, I tried the traditional medical route, and nothing worked. I gradually began trying alternative ways, and have finally subdued the pain for the most part. I use some of Dr. Mills' book. Please note that not all of the suggestions work, but some do. I also have tried Progesterone cream for 3 months, and it does work for me. I think it is important for Victoria to post the pros and cons of using Progesterone cream just as it is important for people to post the pros and cons of all methods. All of us women must respect the fact that different methods work for different people that are affected with Endo. Victoria, since you do so much research, like several of us, how 'bout posting the cons and the pros? -same goes with all of the women who post messages about Lupron, Depo, Danazol, birth control pill, etc. I wish all of us less painful days and a helpful forum...not a hurtful one. Merry Christmas to all of you.
>
>Hi Amy,
>
>Your point about learning all of the options available is what we have now. We have people who are for the use of progesterone creams posting, and I post the background I've researched on it (or the link to the pages where it is at).
>
>I want people to focus on things like learning to do some of the research for themselves, to interpret research, and to ask questions. The archives of obgyn.net are really good. I also use Medline, which is what your doctors use for research. This is available to everyone to look up, and its free. Mdlinx.com and the new patientlinx.com (that may or may not be right, they just came out with it) are also useful. Medscape.com is another excellent and pretty trustworthy resource. I tend to stick to places or magazines that publish RCT or double blind, placebo type tests. When those are repeated over several different population groups and different places/doctors, you can usually get a good idea of what's going on. You don't have to be a doctor to either get this information, or to pick up enough of the lingo to figure out what is going on. I don't want people to think they can't go through the information themselves, and then figure much of it out.
>
>What I found (or a summary of my webpage on creams) is the following:
>
>1) The FDA has gone after companies for progesterone creams because they promote that the product 'cures, treats, or alleviates' certain conditions when there is no accepted science behind it that it does so. This makes it appear to be a drug, and those must be licensed, etc. by law. It is not a food and is taken dermally, so that also classifies it as a drug. The testimonials put up pretty much all include that it is taken like a drug, and is used to cure, treat or alleviate a particular condition. That's technically against the law.
>
>2) I have over 20 comments from doctors on the forums regarding creams. The range goes from:
> a) the fact that 95% to 98% of the product is metabolized to something else. It binds like valium.
> b) success, effectiveness and therapy
> c) that all drugs have side effects.
> d) Dr. Lee's (the doctor who wrote the book on creams) theories are "backed by absolutely no valid medical research". What has been done, is not sufficient for the medical community to accept.
> e) The production of the creams is unregulated. That means you don't know what you're getting. Elsewhere on the page is a link to a place showing that when compounding pharmacies (another method promoted by people to get away from the packaged creams) are used, they are not as reliable as people want to believe.
> f) We already have natural progesterone (Prometrium) in several different forms, that have been proven to work in studies.
> There are more there, but that is a start. I have noted that due to some posts being pulled, the links don't always hit the right ones. I'll fix those ASAP.
>
>3) For endometriosis, anti progesterones (like mifepristone) have been proven to help endometriosis and fibroids. So why would more progesterone work for endometriosis? The estrogen is what makes the lesions grow. To me, I'd want to see a scientific explanation and research done to explain that.
>
>4) The Pubmed research done on it also showed that it wasn't absorbed as well as the prescribed medications, that it had little to no effect on some problems. I happened to stumble upon osteoporosis, which Dr. Lee has claimed would help, but there's not one study over at least 10 years supporting this hypothesis.
>
>5) There are testimonials such as yours that come up. However, testimonials have never been accepted as proof of anything in the scientific world. They must be tested according to certain protocols.
> a) I've been accused by the 'pro' side of coming on as an anonymous poster to support my information. Not only is that incorrect, but the 'pro' side could do the same thing. So its really hard to know, is this a real person or not?
> b) How many people have tried the product and it not work for? If I have 10 people for it, 1000 who tried it and it didn't, do I want to spend the $?
> c) Would you believe someone who has very extreme views? Would you believe 'scare' posts? Would you believe someone who said it was ok to suppliment for both you and your unborn baby, when that wasn't proven?
> d) I'm trying to find out whether or not Dr. Lee did own Avian labs, the saliva testing lab he wanted you to send your sample to test whether or not you needed progesterone cream. I understand he used to promote a brand of cream, but stopped it. So would you believe a doctor who may have had a financial interest (or still may, who knows) in the product, or the selling of the books he writes?
> e) One doctor comment I saw stated that Dr. Lee's basic scientific information was flawed. The MD was working to get her RE specialty, and was in an academic setting.
> f) Would you believe something knowing that there were advertisements for products (a book, in this specific case) that another person would profit off of, if people bought the products and used them more?
> g) Did the promotions ever tell you that the supplement industry is a $20B+ industry? People are making $ there, but its not ok for the pharmaceutical companies to make profits?
> h) Would you trust testimonials where people were either afraid to speak publically (I've gotten some interesting comments on the negative side of creams privately) or did it as anonymous posters because of the response they get?
> i) Would you trust posters who promoted other drugs problems,
> j) Would you believe someone who attacks the messenger (I've gotten this all the time) and do everything in their power to do so because they can't attack the message? Just recently, there was a complain because my page is pretty much links. However, if you look at the page I have, they also complained because I put the information straight on my webpage (letter F, #6, Part B, #1). So I removed it off, but if I can't have it on the webpage, why complain about the links? Because the whole thing is to get the information off there so people can't read it. Think about it ...
> k) Would you believe people who apply different rules to disclosure for themselves, than what they do for others? I satisfy criteria for several (not just one) of the judging sites on the internet. I had my site reviewed, specifically the webpage, by a couple of doctors in addition to this, and they thought it enough to put a stamp of approval on it. The sites and testimonials you are being asked to believe are not being equal in giving you the same disclosures they want from me. I doubt you'd be able to get a signed investigation of their backgrounds to find out whether or not they had a financial or otherwise interest. I could easily get and pass, as I already have, as one person pointed out, my about me page tells you. In addition, I do know there were exposes done on http://www.quackwatch.com, where those exposed were trying to get it 'hushed' up by lawsuits.
>
>6) There is no sure fire way of knowing who has an interest in the NPAN book issue. See I.
>
>7) How do we know what is 'natural progesterone cream' and what is wild yam cream?
>
>8) What happens if it doesn't work? You are out of some money, but if you don't have a period preferably every 3 to 4 months (and check behind me on the women's health forum) your risk of endometrial cancer goes up.
>
>9) I had a person say that "allowed to attack anyone that talks about natural progesterone cream because her doctor tells her it does not work". Not only have I never discussed the issue with my doctor, I've never corresponded with this person privately, and any public comments have never included that. Would you trust that person for your health care, when they admittedly weren't a health care professional, and there did appear to be a financial incentive for the views she had? That didn't happen on this list, but on another one. It makes the whole promotion look very questionable.
>
>That is not all, but part of where I have on it. When you take all that together, there are few pros to it. You have to be willing to experiment on yourself, and hope that it works for you. I kinda expected that since the pro people put up all their side, I put up the 'canned response' to find all the research & links behind it on my webpages.
>
>--
>Victoria
>http://nichollsvi.tripod.com/p_cream.html
>
|
|
![[ endo@obgyn.net ]](../../images/endo_at_obgyn.gif)